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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#471
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bell Labs allowed others to produce transistor based hearing aids royalty free. Volvo allowed others to use a 3-point harness system royalty free. Apple created Lightning to solve a problem and wanted royalties on all products using it. Naturally, the market moved to another solution. While Lightning may be a good piece of technology, I think Apple is largely to blame for its demise. Standardization is good for consu…

USB-C, so good you’re forced to use it!

Between my wife and I, we have two cell phones, three laptops, and a pair of wireless headphones. Only one of those devices doesn't use USB-C- her iPhone. I don't believe the other five devices have USB-C because they were forced to.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#472

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

The writing has been on the wall for years and years that manufacturers have agree on a standard charging plug. Had micro-usb been the direction we were still heading, that would have become the mandated standard.

This law is by all intents and purposes a law directed at Apple, who is the sole hold-out of the large mobile phone manufacturers regarding proprietary charging connectors.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#473

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Saying there was no mandate is only technically true. The EU gave an ultimatum to phone companies to make a compatible charger "or else", which led to a "Memorandum of Understanding" [1] deciding on Micro-USB.

Apple didn't follow that Memorandum, the EU got pissed, so now we reached the "or else" part (it took quite some time considering the Memorandum was more than 10 years ago).

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEMO_1...

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#474

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

EU could have mandated adoption of a certain connector for a certain period of time, rather than for all time.

That way regulation provides the stick to force standardisation, but allows whatever new innovations develop later to have a chance at gaining a foothold. If we find ourselves in this situation again (with a single holdout) we can force the standardisation for a period of time again.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#475
post #238
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about making the best technical choice, this is about ecology and limiting waste, which frankly is a very important and urgent issue. They let the industry regulate itself before regulating, Apple didn't play ball, leading to samsung saying either regulation or we do our thing too, so, regulation. I prefer a slightly worse technical solution and a regulation that needs to be updated every few years, than…

> This is not about making the best technical choice... Thank goodness for the EU parliament, protecting their citizenry from accidentally being exposed to the best technical outcome? Wouldn't want that. If people can't confidently say that the EU is making the best technical choices then the EU shouldn't be legislating technical outcomes. And they can't say that, because this isn't going to be the best choice - the…

> Thank goodness for the EU parliament, protecting their citizenry from accidentally being exposed to the best technical outcome? Wouldn't want that.

That is a nice way to completly miss the point and how we got there, but you do you.

> I bet this doesn't have any material difference on waste.

I bet it does, you're again missing the point, it's about not going back to what we had before, and what we have now made a significant different to what we had before.

> the market is absolutely cut-throat at dealing with manufacturing processes that generate unnecessary waste.

Ah ah ah ah. Pretty much every phone until very recently had a paid of low quality headphones that were instantly thrown out or put in a box and forgotten, and it only disapeared because jack is going away, so your own exemple doesn't work.

> There are going to be better options than USB-C in some use cases. Possibly many use cases as technology improves. The legislators can't see the future - if they could they'd make better decisions.

Yes, so the regulation will need to be kept up to date, just like regulations on things like food, pesticides, industrial processes, ... Still, parliament recognized the inferiority on the technical level of a system driven by regulation in this specific case and offered manufacturers to handle it themselves without involving them, but they couldn't (more specifically, apple refused).

Anyway, each his point of view, these people are elected and I personnaly consider this a big issue that I'm glad to see resolved by my representatives.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Am I missing something here? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2010-12-29...

It looks like you shared an AMP link. AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web [0].

Fully-cached AMP pages like the one you shared are especially problematic.

Maybe check out the canonical page instead:

https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization...

[0]: https://old.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Am I missing something here? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2010-12-29...

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#478
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government mandates on how you can charge your phone won't stifle innovation?

I don't know, did government mandating electricity plugs standards stifle innovation?

There are multiple different plug types used within the EU.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#479
The EU tried very hard, for very many years to signal to the industry "do this yourself so you don't have to legislate it, we don't want to legislate it, you don't want us to legislate it" but Apple (and only Apple) just refused to listen, so here we are.

For micro-USB, they got the industry together in a "memorandum of understanding" to get them to self-implement it without regulation, and it worked great - everyone adopted micro-USB, and then could switch to USB-C, without thinking about legislation with the understanding that the industry would use common standards.

The whole rest of the industry adopted the common standard and are looking at Apple "hey if they can do it why can't we?". If the EU doesn't crack down on Apple now, we're going to end up back again with a Samsung charger, a Sony charger etc.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#480
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Saying there was no mandate is only technically true. The EU gave an ultimatum to phone companies to make a compatible charger "or else", which led to a "Memorandum of Understanding" [1] deciding on Micro-USB. Apple didn't follow that Memorandum, the EU got pissed, so now we reached the "or else" part (it took quite some time considering the Memorandum was more than 10 years ago). [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/…

> Apple didn't follow that Memorandum, the EU got pissed

Just to add a step: Samsung got pissed, and told the EU either regulate, or we do our own thing too like Apple.

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