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U.S. forgives 40k student loans

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#471

Post by omegaworks »

loeg wrote: post #470
omegaworks wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then, tax 100% of the distribution for people without student loan balances. No one is proposing this.

Proposals to pay off student loan debt are the equivalent of this, as I have expanded on at length in the rest of my comment.

They are not, though. You wrote your comment as though every proposal is necessarily a tax on everyone that does not have student loans.

This is an entirely made up claim. A hypothetical strawman useful to only those that seek to victimize themselves when this topic comes up. Student debt is a contractual arrangement between the government and the borrower. It can simply be ended. The government has the power to do that without imposing a tax on everyone else.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#472

Post by omegaworks »

mrep wrote: post #175
wonderbore wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are in exactly the same situation I don’t know you could possibly reach that conclusion. I paid off my loan and lost 1000 hours of work. You didn’t have to work 1000 hours to pay off your loan. We’re not in exactly the same situation . I don’t know how else I can put this without ELI5’ing

Also adding 1.75 trillion dollars worth of debt which taxpayers who paid off their loans are now on the hook for.

The decision to put the debt of student loan borrowers on the shoulders of taxpayers is entirely political.

The government can simply write off the student debt, with no impact on taxpayers. It has the power to do so.

It may choose not to, because it may choose to make the people that invested in student-loan backed financial instruments whole using a tax.

This can also be accomplished without a tax.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#473

Post by mrep »

omegaworks wrote: post #472
mrep wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also adding 1.75 trillion dollars worth of debt which taxpayers who paid off their loans are now on the hook for.

The decision to put the debt of student loan borrowers on the shoulders of taxpayers is entirely political. The government can simply write off the student debt, with no impact on taxpayers. It has the power to do so. It may choose not to, because it may choose to make the people that invested in student-loan backed financial instruments whole using a tax . This can also be accomplished without a tax .

> The government can simply write off the student debt

And now those people have 1.75 trillion dollars more to spend on the economy instead of paying debts which creates inflation which is effectively a tax on everyone with cash and bonds. There is no free lunch with the economy, just distortions.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#474

Post by imtringued »

pyronik19 wrote: post #277
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a spoon makes a crappy can opener if you try and use it for that job. Institutions get designed around their mandate. If you're trying to run a school system you wouldn't invent a court. If you were trying to deal with violations of law you wouldn't create a school board. The federal government's mandate was to manage issues that arise between states and each other, between states and other countries and to…

The problem is that you can't ram down income redistribution schemes in places like New York without watching all the income earners move to another state. No rational person is going to subject themselves to being robbed like that, they will leave (like I did with NYC). The key is to do it at a national level so you can shove it down everyones throats concurrently and give them no way to escape your shitty systems.…

This is a joke. Let's assume you have a technology that doubles productivity. Two guys work 20 hours each or one guy works 40 hours and the other one does not. In the first scenario nobody complains that they are the bread winner. In the second scenario, the bread winner complains about a problem he himself caused by hogging the entire 40 hour work week. I am assuming that the economy isn't growing by the way.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#475

Post by imtringued »

rootusrootus wrote: post #405
godelski wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So first off, remember that the people taking out the loans are typically between 17 and 20. I don't know about you, but when I was 18 I was a fucking idiot. I mean I still am, but more so back then. I would be surprised if you weren't (and you probably aren't even the median case!). Also consider that a lot can happen in 4 years, especially at that age. Your interests typically rapidly change, you learn more about w…

The age argument is an interesting one. Should we be redefining what the age of majority is? Because if 18 year olds aren't competent enough to make borrowing choices for college, it follows that there are plenty of other consequences they shouldn't face.

No it just means that their environment is manipulative.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#476

Post by omegaworks »

mrep wrote: post #473
omegaworks wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision to put the debt of student loan borrowers on the shoulders of taxpayers is entirely political. The government can simply write off the student debt, with no impact on taxpayers. It has the power to do so. It may choose not to, because it may choose to make the people that invested in student-loan backed financial instruments whole using a tax . This can also be accomplished without a tax .

> The government can simply write off the student debt And now those people have 1.75 trillion dollars more to spend on the economy instead of paying debts which creates inflation which is effectively a tax on everyone with cash and bonds. There is no free lunch with the economy, just distortions.

If student spending inflates the economy to the point where there is significant impact on the dollar, what you are saying is we NEED this generation debt-burdened so the rest of us can live decently. If that is true we never really had a functional economy in the first place.

We need to grapple with that truth instead of perpetuating this suffering.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#477

Post by mrep »

omegaworks wrote: post #476
mrep wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government can simply write off the student debt And now those people have 1.75 trillion dollars more to spend on the economy instead of paying debts which creates inflation which is effectively a tax on everyone with cash and bonds. There is no free lunch with the economy, just distortions.

If student spending inflates the economy to the point where there is significant impact on the dollar, what you are saying is we NEED this generation debt-burdened so the rest of us can live decently. If that is true we never really had a functional economy in the first place. We need to grapple with that truth instead of perpetuating this suffering.

What is your definition of a functional economy? I'm a millennial with a mortgage and a car loan. Should I get free money so I'm not debt-burdened?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#478

Post by omegaworks »

mrep wrote: post #477
omegaworks wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If student spending inflates the economy to the point where there is significant impact on the dollar, what you are saying is we NEED this generation debt-burdened so the rest of us can live decently. If that is true we never really had a functional economy in the first place. We need to grapple with that truth instead of perpetuating this suffering.

What is your definition of a functional economy? I'm a millennial with a mortgage and a car loan. Should I get free money so I'm not debt-burdened?

Congratulations, you will eventually own a house and car. I'm sure you paid quite a handsome price on that house to ensure the people formerly living in it could live off the proceeds for the rest of their lives. What will your peers own when they pay off their student loans?

Banks deemed you creditworthy because you make enough to pay these loans off. We're currently discussing the people that don't make enough to pay their student loans off.

Do you think they should be forever renters? Carless in public transportation deserts?

A functional economy allows people to thrive by participating in it. It is not dependent on an artificially created underclass of people in debt to purchase no asset.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#479

Post by pyronik19 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #373
pyronik19 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't ram down income redistribution schemes in places like New York without watching all the income earners move to another state. No rational person is going to subject themselves to being robbed like that, they will leave (like I did with NYC). The key is to do it at a national level so you can shove it down everyones throats concurrently and give them no way to escape your shitty systems.…

I'm not convinced that's as true as you think it is. Sure, some people will move, but presumably people have reasons other than the tax rate that they want to live in a place like New York and so, presumably, they will stay as long as they value those things more than lower taxes.

I'm sure there is the equivalent of a laffer curve by which intangibles are valued subjectively like that. At some point of government overreach people leave... and they are leaving in droves.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#480

Post by mrep »

omegaworks wrote: post #478
mrep wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your definition of a functional economy? I'm a millennial with a mortgage and a car loan. Should I get free money so I'm not debt-burdened?

Congratulations, you will eventually own a house and car. I'm sure you paid quite a handsome price on that house to ensure the people formerly living in it could live off the proceeds for the rest of their lives. What will your peers own when they pay off their student loans? Banks deemed you creditworthy because you make enough to pay these loans off. We're currently discussing the people that don't make enough to p…

> We're currently discussing the people that don't make enough to pay their student loans off.

If we are only discussing just those people, then I think it is a different story. I could get behind a x% of income over y% of years and if it not paid off in the end it is cancelled deal.

However, usually when I see people talking about cancelling student debt they mean wiping the slate clean for everyone even those who just graduated that can pay.

What type of student loan cancellation program are you thinking we should implement?

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