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Web3 is centralized

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Re: Web3 is centralized

#471

Post by fragmede »

vmception wrote: post #430
kortilla wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or a thread every time a new version of one of those languages used in Ethereum Virtual Machines is out. But the majority of people interested in crypto don’t care about the technology, they are in it to get rich. Articles talking about the new technologies underpinning crypto do exist and get submitted, it’s just that to a rough approximation nobody cares about the actual technology. Look at the level of discussio…

> The technology is almost irrelevant at this point. There I disagree, my news feeds in other places are heavily populated by development discussion, and word travels fast in the crypto-sphere. So aside from noticing that HN consensus is distinctly not part of it, it would be hard for me to agree less or disagree more. But people are here, they just arent the active contributors and arent coordinated to elevate their…

> Deploying stuff onchain is lucrative enough.

That seems very interesting! But how does deploying stuff on-chain change the calculus? An unknown person with no Twitter following who's not a member of a Yacht Club/other NFT gang can deploy a contract, but getting people to want to use the contract seems to be a problem for a lone-wolf developer.

Or am I only seeing the tip of the iceberg for the ecosystem?

Re: Web3 is centralized

#472

Post by jmspring »

jmspring wrote: post #108
neuroma wrote: post #72

It's fascinating how on hacker news one typically finds detailed, reasoned and thoughtful comments. However on the topic of crypto and web3 the comments reliably degenerate into partisan tit for tat, consisting mainly of poorly researched, unreasoned sound bytes. It's a pity because I'd love to hear quality thought on the space. My personal view is that crypto and Web3 "are a thing" (Mean Girls) and will continue to…

This is a very specific to Hedera Hashgraph link. But they are based on ABFT based consensus algorithm and they have a governing council that includes Google and other entities. Their consensus mechanism requires a majority of nodes outside the control of Hedera - specifically from the Hedera governing council. It’s all public. I’d start there. The latest buzz, like Ethereum is on NFTs. Not a fan myself. I hold hbars…

As expected HN seems to have animosity towards Hedera. I was only pointing out their tech is actually pretty distributed.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#473

Post by tata71 »

chx wrote: post #468
lgrapenthin wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is not special to crypto. Every currency exchange is "always winning". The rest is not very logical.

Nope, you misunderstand what I am saying. Every transaction loses money and this is built in. That's not true for cash.

Every transaction between humans ever has had some theoretical inefficiency.

The question is: whose value is being lost, and do they care enough to take action?

Re: Web3 is centralized

#474

Post by curryslapper »

delaaxe wrote: post #301
chx wrote: post #288

The problem with web3 is not that it's centralized -- that's irrelevant. The fundamental problem with all crypto"currencies" is as follows: the world uses real currencies and there is only one way this enters into the world of crypto"currencies": by someone selling a coin to someone else. Thus, regardless of what crypto"currency" we are talking about, it would be a zero sum game if not for transaction fees. However,…

Nobody thinks of crypto in terms of currencies anymore. They’re the same old running on different infrastructure: assets, shares of ownership in a business/protocol, certificate of ownership of a digital item, and yes occasionally, currencies

Gotta be careful with that one. Crypto typically doesn't have any equity ownership at all. At best it's a revenue stream.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#475

Post by darawk »

usrbinbash wrote: post #438
darawk wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how "web1" operated all the time: People have a cool idea and fire up a webserver to host it. Self-Custody in its purest form. Web1 assets are not scarce, that's the difference. > Sure, others could copy it, but they can also do that with whatever someone generates an NFT for "digital assets" (the certificate cannot be copied, the thing it certifies ownership for can). Forget NFTs. Go print yourself $1000 U…

> There is no equivalent on web1. Of course there is. If the service offered is not just access to some data, but things like computational power, access to a game server, food delivered, etc. I put up a payment system, and unless its used there is no access to the asset. What form that payment system has, and what tokens it accepts USD, EUR, BTC, Seashells or Sliced Bread, is completely irrelevant.

All of the web1 equivalents are centralized systems, where the assets in question cannot be traded independently of the central authority. That is the difference.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#476

Post by darawk »

tehbeard wrote: post #454
darawk wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone here so focused on NFTs? I didn't mention NFTs at all. They just happen to be the hot thing to shit on right now. I am not a fan of NFTs. But "digital receipts" are tremendously valuable. Receipts are proof of provenance. Proof of provenance is valuable in many, many applications. But anyways, that isn't the point. The type of digital self custody i'm referring to is for things like stablecoins. Stabl…

> ...Stablecoins are a type of cryptocurrency that derives its value from some underlying external asset, like the U.S. dollar or the price of gold... That, doesn't seem very decentralized if it has to pinned to something controlled by one entity? Ok, so self-custody is that you've not got an account with a bank (a "vault" to keep all your money in) that they ultimately control, you're walking around with a wallet, o…

> That argument kind of makes sense? But a central authority can still squeeze on you just as much, by targeting who you would trade with though, right? The ledger is public, they know who you traded with, they can make life difficult for them until you're not a customer.

Ya, it doesn't make you totally immune from squeezing. It just changes the dynamics of how that squeezing works. Essentially, it becomes much less feasible to squeeze people in a scalable way for centralized entities.

> Noone's giving a simple explanation that makes sense and gives the killer app features. It's all marketing hype or five dollar words. It took me a good while to realize that "Stablecoins allow you to self-custody dollars" means "bank can't lock me out of my account"

Ya, I certainly admit the hype and everything else that goes with it around all this stuff is terrible. Crypto is nowhere near as useful as its boosters will tell you. But I do think there is a kernel of something very cool and interesting there.

Self executing and self-enforcing contracts and self custody is a real innovation, especially for people that live under less than stable governments, or have less than stable currencies. People that say this stuff is going to replace the legal system are idiots. It can never do that. But it can take a few superficial legal structures that are currently expensive and messy, and make them a little cleaner, more transparent, and fairer, I think.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#477

Post by darawk »

ericd wrote: post #461
darawk wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone here so focused on NFTs? I didn't mention NFTs at all. They just happen to be the hot thing to shit on right now. I am not a fan of NFTs. But "digital receipts" are tremendously valuable. Receipts are proof of provenance. Proof of provenance is valuable in many, many applications. But anyways, that isn't the point. The type of digital self custody i'm referring to is for things like stablecoins. Stabl…

If I have a bunch of USD stablecoins, where do I turn them in to get paper USD? If that’s even possible, is it to a single organization with 1:1 reserves in US treasury paper? If so, how is that more “self-custody” than a bank?

It's self custody in the sense that you can transact your representative tokens without consulting any intermediary, and without having to get anyone's permission.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#478

Post by withinboredom »

everfree wrote: post #410
withinboredom wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear the word “eventually” associated with crypto, quite a bit. I’ve yet to see an “eventually” actually pan out before they run out of money or the value tanks so low nobody will mine it anymore. As an observer following all of this fairly closely, it feels remarkably like a scam.

I find it telling that several currently live privacy networks were mentioned in this comment tree that you can use today, yet you still latch on to the word "eventually" and call the space a scam.

Maybe that was a bit unfair. Perhaps what I should say is that there is too much competition, such that no one can get the traction they need to truly accomplish their goals, with few exceptions.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#479

Post by onethought »

ThomPete wrote: post #424
onethought wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification? I can participate/play in my democracy with little to no cost. Unless you are arguing time (~20 minutes/year) commitments to vote?

How is it little to no cost? You pay through taxes, value creation, allegiance and a bunch of other areas.

No, tax is only required on income, not related to whether I can vote or not. Don’t need to create value either. Not sure what “allegiance” means.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#480

Post by yunohn »

tata71 wrote: post #470
yunohn wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is feeless and has nearly no delay to transfer You clearly misunderstood the OP. They’re talking about the fees to convert fiat to XYZ crypto. Where can you buy NANO with fiat & zero overhead?

https://ramp.network/buy/?defaultAsset=ETH

Fees: https://support.ramp.network/en/article/what-are-your-fees-1...
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