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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#471

Post by ghoward »

wussboy wrote: post #389
furgooswft13 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take the seat belt off when the car ride is over. Also if you are caught without one you get a small fine, but you don't lose your job and the ability to participate in society.

Because your refusal to wear a seatbelt presents no risk to others. But vaccine refusal does present a risk. So the stakes of the game are not the same.

Refusing to wear a seatbelt does, in fact, present a risk to others because in a crash, you can become a lethal projectile should you fly and hit someone else.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#472

Post by throwaway47292 »

igorkraw wrote: post #447
throwaway47292 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the % of unvaccinated would stay the same next year? My gut feeling is that it will increase, every 6 months when the new booster is needed we will get more and more people not wanting it. How long until the unvaccinated are more than the vaccinated? 18 months? What happens when they are the majority and ban all vaccines?

In that fantasy world they'd still need to provide evidence that the ban us justified, otherwise people can challenge it in court. The vaccine people have the "benefit" of a collapsing medical system and am absence of a similar load and collapse in countries with high vaccination rate.

Well if they are 30% now, they must have the 'evidence' that convinces them they are right, when they are 60% they would have even more 'evidence'. Why wouldn't they blame it on, the eastern europeans or something?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#474

Post by xafnuaetrf8764 »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

You're just a piece of a fucking fascist, cunt.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#475

Post by TacticalCoder »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> ... but 30% are holding everyone back.

Not at all and I can turn that argument back: I know non-vaccinated people who stay at home and "evil" fully vaccinated people who go out. It is a fact that vaccinated people can still carry and transmit the virus.

It is also a fact that in the EU 40 to 60% of all ICU beds are filled with fully vaccinated people (40% in Spain atm but the number is going up, 50% in Belgium, 60% in the Netherlands, for example).

So evil, fully vaccinated (like me btw), people going out, spreading the virus, then falling ill and ending up on an ICU bed.

Do you really want to shame people like that? Because if we play that game, then I'll shame the vaccinated people who still have a social life: they do spread the virus.

How did these evil fully vaccinated people who are on ICU bed get the virus? Who did they give it too? Why didn't they stay at home / live less of a social life? They're putting an unnecessary burden on the healthcare system...

Countries like Gibraltar with 100% vaccination rate still just experienced a wave.

Same in Israel, one of the most vaccinated country on earth.

> Besides, it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated.

That is not clear at all. Why not lock down hard, very hard, the old and those known at risk why letting the virus circulate among the healthy population: this, and that is a known fact, creates a much better immunity than the one conferred by the "vaccine". The studies published showed 12x less risk to catch the Delta variant if you had had Covid before compared to someone who just had the shots.

If anything: maybe that that "vaccine" which still let people carry and spread the virus is part of the problem.

The problem is the old and those at risk have been sold a lie by politicians and big pharma: that by getting the vaccine they'd be safe. So they let their guards down and now they're fully vaccinated... on ICU beds.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#476

Post by MauranKilom »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #426
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

> 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. 50% to 60% of all the people in ICU with covid related symptoms in the EU atm are fully vaccinated. It's been lies from day one: "masks do not protect" then "masks are mandatory because they protect" (I don't know which one is correct but at least one is a lie), "you're a conspiracy theorist if you think there's any link between a virus research lab in Wuhan a…

> 50% to 60% of all the people in ICU with covid related symptoms in the EU atm are fully vaccinated.

I'm trying to find a reliable/official source for this statistic (not your numbers in particular but numbers at all), but am coming up empty-handed. Can you tell me where you found this?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#477

Post by scohesc »

Auracle wrote: post #109
wjnc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter argument: Medical personel is hard to find and expensive, as is IC infrastructure. Why would we've needed to keep spare IC capacity for decades only to find out we need it in case of a pandemic? The German argument could be re-constructed into an argument that any country will run into IC shortages regardless of the level of IC availability. In an exponential curve it's only three or four cycles (8-12 days?)…

You can’t throw a stone without hitting a nurse in the US, but I’m guessing they’re paid far better here as well just as doctors are. I know Germany has a mixed system but it seems to me that socialized medicine keeping costs down slowly erodes care. The increase in costs in the US is also unsustainable. There might be a happy medium in there but it might be too early to tell.

> I know Germany has a mixed system but it seems to me that socialized medicine keeping costs down slowly erodes care.

You can see this happening in Canada too. We have a hybrid system in healthcare where the majority of critical care is paid for via taxes/government subsidies however secondary/tertiary stuff is either out of pocket or through insurance agencies (prescriptions, out-patient care like physiotherapy, etc).

Over the past 20-30 years, our system has seen the typical government thought process of throwing more money at problems but not actually having someone be accountable for the actions of the government over decades. You end up with a bunch of overpaid, under-worked management at the top while the actual front-line workers suffer with low staffing, not enough beds, budget cuts for the front line but raises for management etc. etc.

Not to mention the number of students coming here for health education (doctor, nurse, specialist) - then immediately saying sayonara for another country like the US or in the case of foreign students, their home country.

I don't understand why we keep cutting healthcare budgets - one possible reason could be because corporations have slowly been taking over every aspect of society as they move faster and make smarter decisions than government officials.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#478

Post by furgooswft13 »

wussboy wrote: post #389
furgooswft13 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take the seat belt off when the car ride is over. Also if you are caught without one you get a small fine, but you don't lose your job and the ability to participate in society.

Because your refusal to wear a seatbelt presents no risk to others. But vaccine refusal does present a risk. So the stakes of the game are not the same.

"X poses risk to others therefore you have no choice" is a statement that can be made for nearly any scenario. To wit:

Uncontrolled flying bodies pose additional risks when there are multiple people in the vehicle. There's also the risk of driving to begin with, for people both in and outside the vehicle.

The risks of harm to you _and_ others from crashing a car are probably higher at this point than that of a vaxxed person getting seriously ill from covid.

But anyway the point I was making was to refute GP's statement that seat belt laws and the pushback around them are the same as for the vax mandates. They are not, because the vax is permanent, and the consequences for non-compliance much higher. The fact that you can't "take the vax off" is part of these stakes that are not the same.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#479

Post by whiddershins »

chki wrote: post #427
spookthesunset wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

Increasing hospital capacities is almost pointless because new cases will be exponential. So doubling your ICU-capacities (which is extremely difficult to do, mainly because you don't have the staff) will buy you two-three weeks until the hospital is full again.

It peaks though, and comes back down. Every. Single. Time. Regardless of interventions.

The real world can't sustain exponential growth for too long, other limiting factors come in to play.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#480

Post by scruple »

serial_dev wrote: post #271
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

My story is very similar to yours. As a result, I am also reluctant to get the booster because I do not have a support system whereby I can have another severe reaction that causes me to be incapable of helping the people who depend on me every single day.

I am working on getting my mother in law to be on call to stay with us for a 10-14 day period, if need be, so that I can get the booster. It's quite ridiculous.

All of that having been said, I know that I need it.

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