It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#471

Post by SigmundA » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #421

SigmundA wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been able to get my head around the religious paradox of God has a plan and free will. Can we make choices that effect the outcome of things or is it all part of Gods plan? It can't be both right? Did God create everything including free will or does it exist outside of his control? I don't blame my program when it does something wrong, I mean I wrote the code that tells it how to behave.

> Can we make choices that effect the outcome of things or is it all part of Gods plan? It can't be both right? Given the appropriate doctrine, sure it can. First, in some religions (and some denominations of Christianity) God exists outside of the framework of logical necessity. God being tied to logical necessity himself is a later western theological concern (say, starting with Augustine and co). Not really a tene…

>First, in some religions (and some denominations of Christianity) God exists outside of the framework of logical necessity.

This is simply an escape hatch, if it can't be explained, it's because it's magic. Gods follow no logic do what you're told even if it makes no logical sense because there is no logic to be found. There is no room for debate here, you can't use reason, there is nothing further to discuss.

>That's because you're not God to your program, but merely a human that developed it. So you can't both make it and give it free will (among lots of other limitations, like not being able to make water wine at will).

Even more so the blame goes to God not his creations since he created everything including free will and the choices. Blaming your creations playing in the sandbox you created with the sand you created is a nonsensical blame game with yourself.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#472

Post by Guid_NewGuid » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

throwaway483284 wrote: post #314

Around 10 years ago when I was telling everyone what will happen soon (floods, wild fires, heat waves etc) people looked at me like I'm some kind of lunatic. These days the same people ask me what I think about the future. Few years ago I believed we can still win with climate change but now I'm certain that we will not. Problem is in the fundamentals of our current economic model that is based on infinite growth, wh…

Agree and don't really see why this is an unpopular view.

I am about to hit 30 and I've never had an opportunity to vote for a winning government. I have been powerless to do anything other than basically pointless personal responsibility actions for my whole goddamn life. Sure I've gone vegetarian and bought green energy, I don't drive and try to avoid flying but it doesn't make any difference.

So given we live in democracies where the majority of voters will block any kind of progressive action (or authoritarian regimes) how do you cope mentally? And effectively stoicism is the only course. Don't take liberties with the environment in your personal life and support and promote solutions at a social and fiscal level. But you can't change any of this shit. The next generation is going to blame my generation and that's completely fair but there's nothing I could have realistically done.

Acceptance is important to stop the despair, feelings of doom and self hate. It isn't the same as denial.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#473

Post by brtkdotse » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

panzagl wrote: post #417

brtkdotse wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. Science has been _screaming_ for a carbon tax. Eat all the meat and drive all you want, but be prepared to pay up for the externalities that have been “free” so far.

So we'll charge the Masai the same for their cows that we'll charge a Texan?

That’s the most ill-constructed straw man I’ve seen in a long time.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#474

Post by dang » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

wilg wrote: post #248

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to replace God with something. This faith will do.

This is one of the silliest things I have ever read

"Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead."

a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#475

Post by dang » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #210

whall6 wrote: post #19

Why is every other post on hacker news about climate change

They have to replace God with something. This faith will do.

We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait to HN. That's not what the site is for.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#476

Post by pdonis » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #241

pdonis wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hot July killed 1000 people in the Pacific Northwest alone in just 1 week. Cold kills more people than heat. Milder winters will save more lives than will be lost in hotter summers.

> Milder winters will save more lives than will be lost in hotter summers. Ecological collapse brought on by adding stress to a system already stressed the hell out by decades of rapid change, however, would probably kill a lot more lives than any saved.

Humans' ability to adapt to change will save many more lives, if we allow adaptation to happen. The biggest thing preventing that right now is doomsday rhetoric. Humans have adapted to much bigger changes than this in the past. Our ancestors adapted to the change from Ice Age to interglacial with Stone Age technology. The idea that we somehow cannot adapt to this much smaller change with 21st century technology is laughable.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#477

Post by throwawaysea » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

linuxhansl wrote: post #303

Imagine an asteroid would be on trajectory to collide with earth in (say) 2025. Possible order of hypothetical events: 1. Scientist discover the asteroid. Calculate risk of collision. 2. Asteroid comes closer, probability of impact is calculated as high. 3. People will start saying that we cannot let our economy be controlled by the specter of an asteroid. 4. The asteroid becomes visible. You can see it with your bar…

Climate change is not an existential threat, although it is a serious problem. I suspect that while millions or even hundreds of millions may be impacted, the majority of humans will survive and adapt to it. A reduction in the population, even if forced upon us without choice, would help correct the problem. There is much debate about which humans exactly are impacted (the poor in third-world low-lying countries?) or if the ones causing the most impact will be the ones killed (from rich Western countries?), but there is some population threshold beyond which our per capita consumption levels and high standard lifestyles will come into balance with the realities of climate and the environments around us. This is different from facing a large asteroid, where one such impact can literally end all terrestrial animal life on the planet on a much shorter time scale.

More on the notion that climate change is not an existential threat here, from a Professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of Washington: https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2019/08/is-global-warming-exi...

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#478

Post by jaredklewis » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

noobly wrote: post #468

slg wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that an asteroid is an existential threat to humanity while climate change is just short of that. The rich and powerful are always going to be protected from experiencing the worst aspects of climate change. They won't be the ones working outside when the air quality is dangerous from wildfires. They aren't going to be the ones who can't sleep because it is 90 degrees in their home. They won't be st…

> The difference is that an asteroid is an existential threat to humanity while climate change is just short of that. And you can see an asteroid heading straight for you, anyone skeptical could just get, or borrow, a scope. I don't think an asteroid collision would induce a politicized disinfo campaign personally, it's too concrete.

I think it's hard to know. I would have thought the earth being round was "too concrete" to dispute, but here we are.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#479

Post by whall6 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

bjoli wrote: post #462

whall6 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the globe is heating up. And I’m not being snarky. However, I fail to see how climate change means food insecurity.

https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/

> projected a 1–29% cereal price increase in 2050

I agree that everything in this article could and probably will happen. However, how could even a 29% increase in cereal prices lead to a societal collapse? I didn’t see anything that would lead to societal collapse.

Humans adapt. They always have. Is it not possible that we could perhaps be made better as a species because of climate change?

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#480

Post by adam_arthur » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #399

adam_arthur wrote: post #367

Any policy should be evaluated on the basis of costs and benefits. Too much of the conversation on global warming is either broadly dismissive or exasperatingly alarmist. Fundamentally policy changes to curb global warming will have economic consequence, those of which will be borne disproportionately by the poor. E.g. efforts to curb oil and coal extraction will naturally result in the price of energy going up. I ca…

This is a fairly western centric view of “the poor.” The poor in the global south are absolutely going to be disproportionately impacted by climate change. If anything it’s the rich who are least impacted by global warming. The rich can afford to buy AC, move to areas that aren’t at risk of fires and floods and famines won’t cause us to go hungry.

You say disproportionately impacted. Can you quantify that? That's exactly the hand-wavey language we should avoid.

Water level rises by how many feet, displaces how many people? What is the cost of the coastal real estate lost? It can all be quantified (within range).

You'd probably find that for poor areas it's quite cost effective for people to relocate. New York City going underwater is much harder to replace. Obviously due to the level of cost to replicate the construction.

You say famine... Why would climate change bring famine? Farming and arable land would just shift to more cost effective areas. Some arable land is lost, others is gained (cold areas becoming warm). Building logistics to transport food to localities that can't support it locally is a good idea, and easy to achieve. That's the power of trade.

I don't dismiss the reality or impact of climate change at all, but look at the responses I get. Just people taking hyperbolically without really getting into the details that matter. Or lacking convincing and detailed statements. It's all hand-wavey and vague generalities about flooding or fires.