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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#471
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally good design and user-centered design (but that's being eroded with every new release) along with attention to detail. Small examples: you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active, applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking.

> you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active This works on Windows, and most sane Linux DEs are either default to that or can be configured to do that. > applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking. Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at a…

> Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at all? Otherwise it is pretty interesting, please elaborate.

Exactly. Special notwithstanding, it’s still a nice feature and not something Windows has to my knowledge, at least not common (i.e. “File is in use” errors). On macOS you can e.g. move a file to trash while it’s being used still by some running program.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason I bought a Mac way back when is that I wasn't going to go back to Windows if I could avoid it, and I needed to run Photoshop.

This sounds a tad irrational, but I also hate windows once every 4 years.

That sounds a tad presumptive.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#473
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No.No.no.no.no.no.no.no. A million thousand times no. As some one else said, every spare dollar I have is going to fund a company that values open source hardware, open source software, right to repair and own. A company that doesn't purposefully force manufactured obsolescence as a business model, privacy intrusions, lip service to OSS, bullying right to repair in courts, tax evasions doesn't deserve any free work f…

Wow, thats some conspiracy theory. Only a teeny tiny fraction of hardware companies have any relationship with Apple whatsoever. For those that do yes their Apple work is lucrative, but for most of them like Sony or Samsung it's a minuscule fraction of their overall revenue, and even then is only for very specific components. Large swathes of their output has nothing to do with Apple. The supply chains of most PC man…

Apple is superficially "premium" nowadays.

It has been releasing faulty keyboards on it's macbooks for years. They knew. They didn't care. They just continued to release new ones every year with the same faulty keyboard.

Not to mention staingate (which affected me personally).

Those 2700$+ macbooks with ghosting screens. The stupid chip that does a weird sound when you stop your music.

The list just goes on and on.

And this is the stuff on the surface. Go open a macbook and analyze every single component quality...

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#474
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, we are talking about that Apple which integrated soft fuses that can be triggered remotely, and will brick your device physically. Care to expand on that? > We are talking about that Apple which sued a recycling vendor in Canada because they recycled devices instead of trashing them. That's incorrect. They sued the company because they were supposed to take the devices apart and recycle/recover the parts. Not r…

> Care to expand on that? (brick your device physically) The lock feature is implemented via iCloud and the "Find My Mac" page, which is able to remotely shut the soft fuses via BIOS/EFI, and in return physically bricks the hardware. Anybody that has control over your iCloud account (e.g. a malicious third party) can potentially do this. See [1], this happened to a lot of companies (customers) that had problems with…

> The lock feature is implemented via iCloud and the "Find My Mac" page, which is able to remotely shut the soft fuses via BIOS/EFI, and in return physically bricks the hardware. Anybody that has control over your iCloud account (e.g. a malicious third party) can potentially do this. See [1], this happened to a lot of companies (customers) that had problems with malicious third-parties getting access to their network.

So a security feature? Hardly Apple acting maliciously, is it. Regarding iCloud being compromised, this is inarguably down to lack security policy on the part of business or the end user. iCloud now enforces 2fa by default as a result, largely because (and I'm speaking from experience here) most businesses can't be trusted to do this themselves.

> How come that they could only prove that by having more than 18% of devices that were sent to be trashed with active GPS antennas, and active remote iCloud software tracking? [2] Also, recycle is defined as re-cycling, not re-abandoning. The definition of recycling among the population seems to be a different perception than yours.

Had Apple sold the lots to the company, you'd be right, but that's not what happened. Apple paid the company to destroy, recover and recycle. The company acted in bad faith and against the terms of the contract they had with Apple. With regards to you claim that Apple tracked active devices - when a business has any kind of electronic equipment destroyed, they are required, by law, to record certain information about the devices like serial numbers, etc. Unsurprisingly, some of the devices turned up at Apple stores for repair. The article that you linked to has the following from Apple: “Products sent for recycling are no longer adequate to sell to consumers and if they are rebuilt with counterfeit parts they could cause serious safety issues, including electrical or battery defects...”. Devices that can and meet the requisant standards to be refurbished and resold are.

> Literally a couple months after PayPal and other payment providers were banned by removing the headphone jack in the 8th gen iPhone, Apple Pay was introduced. You're making it sound like 2 or 3 tiny low-voltage wires are harder to implement than a Bluetooth antenna wiring... c'mon, really?

This is noting more than a conspiracy theory! Do you really believe that they removed the headphone jack to fuck with Paypal? This is utterly ridiculous. I'm not, by the way, suggesting that wires are are a pain in the ass from an engineering perspective, rather a user perspective.

> You're making it sound as if bash was only inside macOS for a short time. bash, for the sake of argument, has been in use since macOS 10.2 which was released in 2002 [3], whereas 10.0 was a public beta and 10.1 was released the same year in 2001. The argument of a tcsh being in use for 9 months, and bash being in use for over 19 years is quite the opposite way around than you seem to perceive it.

Your link shows that bash was included with 10.2 (it was included with 10.0/10.1 and NeXTStep too), not the default. tsch was still the default until OS X 10.3 (bash-2.05a-release) - not 9 months, 2.5 years. bash 4.0 was formally released in 2009, with a change to GPLv3. Apple had updated bash to 3.2 and stuck with that as it was licensed in a way that was acceptable to them for distribution. I know this to be the case because I actually used these OS's on a daily basis. As I said originally, Apple should have switched to a different shell at this point. The wornderfull thing about UNIX shells is that the user can change the default and use what they want, including updating the pre installed one, so suggesting this as Apple being user hostile is well wide of the mark.

> Again, my arguments were to counteract the argument that "Apple is acting in good faith for the people", because I do not think that anything innovative can happen on a crippled platform.

That's your opinion, and a perfectly fine and valid one to have, but...

> Apple actively shuts down innovation, every time it could be seen as an alternative to their own product, which they will release only once market adaption has been done by pioneers. This was happening a lot of times with hardware, and a lot of times with software.

...is simply not accurate in the way you are framing it.

> I personally would choose repairability over anything, always, because I've learned my lessons the hard way with financial burdens.

That's fine. Others wouldn't. I'd suggest convenience is top of the list for the majority of people that use Apple products. It's the same argument that goes against the customisation camp.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#475

Most of the solutions in this thread are simply not viable. Stuff like the Pinebook and Raspberry Pi are several magnitudes away from Apple's M1 SoC. No amount of hackerish imitation will bridge that gap, the laws of physics are not kind to consumer product hardware hackers. It is very obvious that most of the people commenting here has never held a soldering iron, nor taken a single computer architecture class. The…

Apple has the same sort of ownership of M1 as it did with Thunderbolt, maybe a little bit more but not much more than you'd think. Let me explain.

Apple has the performance edge now because it purchased ALL of the 5nm chip fabrication capacity of TSMC. This does not mean:

- they will be able to do so forever

- someone else won't be doing 5nm in the next couple of years

So, the same sort of performance will come to other devices in the near future. The best Apple can hope to do at this time is to get enough attention to get some new users and hopefully lock them in into their cozy eco-system.

Most importantly, most users don't care about an expensive powerful devices. Highest selling consumer devices are still budget devices and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Servers on the other hand will continue to demand powerful hardware, and Apple isn't doing anything there.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#476
post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, as the author of that: that was mostly a job of reverse engineering what was weird/broken/different about the PS4's GPU, which is otherwise a standard Radeon. It was effectively adding support for a new Radeon variant chip of an existing GPU generation. There was definitely a deep dive into the platform and I reverse engineered the proprietary Radeon firmware CPU architecture in the process (which nobody…

Somewhat responding to a twitter post you made, but the Apple GPU is absolutely not a legacy-free architecture: it still looks broadly (very broadly) similar to a PowerVR GPU, which I don't think anyone would claim is even remotely sane. To give you some context for the scope of the task: with all the hardware documentation and close to 32 years (combined) experience with that specific architecture it took around two…

Thanks for the context. I know the GPU isn't going to become a fully compliant implementation on par with the e.g. Radeon drivers with only one person working on in in months.

That said, are you talking about a full graphics stack, or just the GPU-specific bits? Modern Linux graphics heavily emphasize code reuse across architectures, both on the kernel side and userspace side, which is completely different from how vendors typically do things.

The goalposts are quite different between having a fully compliant implementation that can deal with software that uses the GPU intensively (and hits all the corner cases properly), which is what Apple has to build, and being a usable desktop experience for Linux - having the whole stack be open source makes debugging things a lot easier too. Getting to full Vulkan compliance is definitely not going to be a one-person job. But we've seen fairly fast progress on GPU drivers going from triangles on the screen to simple game ports in some cases, with only one or two developers involved. I obviously don't have any yardstick for how the Apple GPU compares to everything else, but a priori, my hope is to be able to push things past the initial cliff to where the GPU starts being useful, and then of course other contributors can help improve support. In my experience, the initial hurdle in building a community project is often the hardest part, as a lot of people have no idea where to start supporting undocumented hardware (and I'm particularly good at doing black-box reverse engineering of this kind of stuff; I can claim a good 15 years+ of experience there myself). For example, once e.g. the shader ISA is documented and a PoC backend implemented, I expect people with more shader optimization experience than me to want to pitch in and make it faster.

Re firmware, I would expect to use Apple's (at least initially).

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#477
post #473
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, thats some conspiracy theory. Only a teeny tiny fraction of hardware companies have any relationship with Apple whatsoever. For those that do yes their Apple work is lucrative, but for most of them like Sony or Samsung it's a minuscule fraction of their overall revenue, and even then is only for very specific components. Large swathes of their output has nothing to do with Apple. The supply chains of most PC man…

Apple is superficially "premium" nowadays. It has been releasing faulty keyboards on it's macbooks for years. They knew. They didn't care. They just continued to release new ones every year with the same faulty keyboard. Not to mention staingate (which affected me personally). Those 2700$+ macbooks with ghosting screens. The stupid chip that does a weird sound when you stop your music. The list just goes on and on. A…

Apple has always been superficially premium

It’s an Intel machine

They’ve released versions with bad graphics cards, bad batteries.

It takes time to re-design and ship. They replaced numerous “bad keyboard” models for people.

Meanwhile, every plastic Lenovo or Dell needs a new hinge or battery cover every year, and screws fall out.

I’d take physically legit with hard to source issues like ghosted screens since I’m only using it for text and browsing and occasional sound hiccups than a laptop that falls apart after 2 years.

My recent 15” MBP has outlived Dells of the same age at my employer.

80% of the way there is better than 60%

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#478
post #442
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, thats some conspiracy theory. Only a teeny tiny fraction of hardware companies have any relationship with Apple whatsoever. For those that do yes their Apple work is lucrative, but for most of them like Sony or Samsung it's a minuscule fraction of their overall revenue, and even then is only for very specific components. Large swathes of their output has nothing to do with Apple. The supply chains of most PC man…

>I mean Ive got to think you must know both those points are true. Hardware relating Comments on HN has always been fairly low quality to say the least, comparatively speaking to many other subjects. But Apple M1 sort of brings the worst out of it. My current counting right now over 10K comment suggest most have very limited understanding of Hardware tech, little on Hardware business, and quite literally zero on supp…

FWIW, it is because we read articles like this one, and because we are constantly told that Apple has exclusive deals for good touch screens from Samsung (who happens to also make the one other good line of competing phones, and which you explicitly stated was a place where people are wrong).

https://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/08/21/apple-locks-its-riva...

> How Apple locks its rivals out of the tablet market with exclusive sourcing deals

Care to explain how we are wrong instead of just claiming we are dumb? I promise that if you educate me (somewhat a bit famous in the "hating on Apple" space) I will help educate others. (Though, FWIW, I do know that a lot of Apple's hardware is semi-custom design, and so if the argument is that I know but find it irrelevant for this comment thread. I am focusing on the belief that Apple makes it hard for others to source parts, which has a lot of history to it.)

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have all the power but none of the utility.

You are spreading FUD. The phone can do almost everything, including 3D-games.

Fine, so you can port tuxracer to it.

If you want to play an actual game people care about and think there are game companies building those for PureOS you're delusional.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t understand why people complain instead of taking FOSS they like, packaging it as an app, distributing it on the App Store & publishing the source. Does Apple prohibit that? Apple does not, but the GPL does.

Note that this applies only if you are using GPL software owned by other people. If you write entirely your own code, and include only more freely licensed dependencies, you can release your own code under the GPL and still distribute it on the App Store.

Sure, but that's only because if it's your own code, you don't have to follow any rules at all. You can do whatever the heck you want, up to and including making the whole thing closed source.
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