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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are e.g. Dell XPS "developer edition" which are shipping with Ubuntu and have near 100% hardware support (I think there's some issue with fingerprint reader).

I wonder at what point they got rid of the Intel RAID/RST controller that'll never be supported in upstream Linux - it's in the non-"developer" 9350.

You turn it off in the BIOS before installing your system, and that's it.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#202
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux becoming attractive on their hardware would almost certainly be unsupported, but I seriously doubt it would be undermined. This. Apple doesn't even care about Hackintoshes, which are (theoretically) orders of magnitude more threatening to Apple's business model since they (theoretically) cannibalize Mac sales.

The main reason to run hackintosh as far as I know is to write software for macOS or iOS. Apple won’t encourage corporations to build hackintoshes but as long as it isn’t too easy to install macOS anywhere I don’t see how — on net — it hurts apple.

> The main reason to run hackintosh as far as I know is to write software for macOS or iOS.

I suspect a lot of Hackintoshes users do so because they like using macOS day-to-day, but don't see anything appealing in Apple's hardware lineup.

I'm one of them.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#203

Most of the solutions in this thread are simply not viable. Stuff like the Pinebook and Raspberry Pi are several magnitudes away from Apple's M1 SoC. No amount of hackerish imitation will bridge that gap, the laws of physics are not kind to consumer product hardware hackers. It is very obvious that most of the people commenting here has never held a soldering iron, nor taken a single computer architecture class. The…

> This is the Sputnik moment for open source

Does it need to be? x86 had every opportunity to become a locked-down, exclusive standard too, and it grew the way it did, into a cross-vendor standard, for a reason. Why will a similar trajectory not apply to the M1?

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#204
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As spiffy as Apple mobile devices are, I never found the locked down environment worth it. Nice hardware, too bad about the OS/App model... This new hardware is awesome! I could care less overall though. Frankly, open computing can be done fast enough to not be a worry. I will stick with all that and see where this new path leads. And my mind is open. Who knows? Maybe it all ends up in a good place. I am quite happy…

I don’t understand why people complain instead of taking FOSS they like, packaging it as an app, distributing it on the App Store & publishing the source. Does Apple prohibit that? I remember the days of very little Apple compatible software on the shelf at retailers, and no games. I was probably one of the first students to use a MacBook with OSX for CSCI 101 because many classes required Windows. That was lack of f…

> I don’t understand why people complain instead of taking FOSS they like, packaging it as an app, distributing it on the App Store & publishing the source. Does Apple prohibit that?

Apple does not, but the GPL does.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#205
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder at what point they got rid of the Intel RAID/RST controller that'll never be supported in upstream Linux - it's in the non-"developer" 9350.

You turn it off in the BIOS before installing your system, and that's it.

Which is what I've done when installing Linux. Am I losing performance? Power efficiency? Features?

It also makes dual booting trickier if you don't plan it beforehand.

It frustrates me that there's not that many reviews that cover this kind of stuff, so it's hard to avoid silliness like this when making a substantial purchase like a laptop.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#206

Most of the solutions in this thread are simply not viable. Stuff like the Pinebook and Raspberry Pi are several magnitudes away from Apple's M1 SoC. No amount of hackerish imitation will bridge that gap, the laws of physics are not kind to consumer product hardware hackers. It is very obvious that most of the people commenting here has never held a soldering iron, nor taken a single computer architecture class. The…

> Apple has already laid the architectural groundwork, a chip with similar performance numbers can probably be commissioned with ~50 million.

I think you might be two orders of magnitude off here. A class leading general purpose compute chip on a cutting edge process? I don’t think $5 billion to produce working chips is unreasonable. If it were only $50M to produce A14/M1 level chips, Qualcomm would already have done so.

Cerebras is cool, but they are not on TSMC 5nm and don’t have to design general purpose silicon, where you have pesky things like huge reorder buffers or 8-wide decode blocks, which are not seen in any other production CPU right now.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#207
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but because Apple won't help us with documentation. No documentation is being hostile to other OSes running on their hardware.

I agree. Not locking the bootloader doesn't mean they're going to embrace running other operating systems. As a long time mac user, the idea of them supporting other operating systems seems really un-Appley to me. What happens if I put linux on my (still under warranty) macbook and then have to take it in to an Apple store for some reason?

Presumably the same thing that happens if you put Linux on an Intel MacBook, which has always been possible. I don’t know what that is exactly. But in my experience, Apple does tell everyone to back up their data before handing a computer in for repair; there’s no guarantee the computer will come back with disk contents intact. So assuming you’re backed up, you could just wipe the drive and temporarily install macOS if it becomes an issue…

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#208

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

Lol they highlighted running Linux in the first announcement of the ISA switch , they see no threat in Linux at all. Their business model would need to change dramatically for that to happen. They’re a hardware company that makes the hardware more attractive with software, service and device integration. Their software restrictions are part of the value proposition, but anyone fully ejecting from that would be on the…

They were a hardware company, but are moving into services for continued growth, which puts them at odds with an open platform. The business model is changing. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382136/quarterly-segment...

You can see services revenue is up to 14 billion compared to iPhone's 26 billion.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#209

Most of the solutions in this thread are simply not viable. Stuff like the Pinebook and Raspberry Pi are several magnitudes away from Apple's M1 SoC. No amount of hackerish imitation will bridge that gap, the laws of physics are not kind to consumer product hardware hackers. It is very obvious that most of the people commenting here has never held a soldering iron, nor taken a single computer architecture class. The…

> Apple has already laid the architectural groundwork, a chip with similar performance numbers can probably be commissioned with ~50 million. I think you might be two orders of magnitude off here. A class leading general purpose compute chip on a cutting edge process? I don’t think $5 billion to produce working chips is unreasonable. If it were only $50M to produce A14/M1 level chips, Qualcomm would already have done…

You are right, I am mostly estimating based off upgrading existing architectures with insights obtained from M1. 50 million may be enough for the raw manufacturing cost for one batch but research and development from scratch would not be cheap. I am basing the cost off the assumption that there are already experienced chip designers at Intel/Qualcomm who are willing to take the opportunity to build a startup with a 50 mil budget.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#210

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

Will Apple sell M1s to other laptop manufacturers?

I already pay for closed source Intel and AMD, I wouldn't mind being able to use M1s, but, I just don't like Apple laptop hardware.

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