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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#471

Post by catalogia »

foepys wrote: post #189
peteretep wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely the end of one-sided free markets. There's no suggestion that the US is about to pull the same shit on countries that don't try and hobble US tech companies.

The EU will probably start to tax tech companies that avoid taxes by registering in tax havens within the next few years. If that's the US' sole motivation, it seems like a receipt for disaster.

That doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster to me. It sounds like a great plan, the EU should do exactly that.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#472

Post by stale2002 »

bleepblorp wrote: post #164
paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

It's pretty much impossible for lower-income countries to develop economically without protecting their emerging businesses from being slaughtered by established foreign competition. The priority of the Chinese government is the benefit of its citizens (leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens, as this is a separate issue) and its domestic economy, not the benefit of…

> China is not Europe; it's not going to hand over the keys to its economic future to the United States just because the US asks for them.

Of course they aren't going to do that merely because we asked them nicely.

But, if we start forcing them to sell 100 billion dollar companies for 50% off, like what is happening with TikTok, well then they might start to listen.

Thats the whole point. I am completely unsurprised that China is acting this way. And, in response, America is going to retaliate and cause many billions and billions of dollars in damages to major China tech companies.

> It's not reasonable to expect, much less demand, that the Chinese turn their tech economy over to silicon valley by allowing unrestricted US entry. It's not in their economic interests, nor is it in their security interests, and no amount of US bullying will change this.

Well if what you are saying is true, then it sounds like we should try and get a consolation prize, of taking some of their companies.

Sure, they might not give in to our demands. I don't really expect them to. But if thats the case, well, at least the USA can still benefit by taking some of their valuable tech companies, right?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#473

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

MattGaiser wrote: post #416
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

I suspect the ban will just be on the monetization. So they can keep TikTok and WeChat, but will not be able to profit from them.

The order seems sufficiently broadly worded to ban ads on either platform, hosting them in the US, etc.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#474

Post by ulfw »

stale2002 wrote: post #437
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

Thats not unequal. They did it to us, so we are doing it to them. This is how trade relations have worked since forever. It is not complicated. If another country engages in negative trade actions to us, it seems reasonable to do similar trade sanctions against them, so that we are treating them similarly to how they are treating us. This is the basis of most international trade agreements and relations. If a country…

Childish. Then again, that‘s the US in a nutshell in 2020.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#475

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

dirtyid wrote: post #470
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

Nothing is banned, you follow domestic censorship laws you get to play. Every domestic companies has to, it's onerous, and level playing fields. FB, Google still sell billions in ads to China, they were engineering compliant services to return. Legal reciprocity is China following US laws, which it does. Functional reciprocity is forcing Chinese companies to enter JV and tech transfer - while providing Chinese compan…

> FB, Google sell billions in ads to China

Citation needed. Both are effectively completely blocked in China by the GFW.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#476

Post by [deleted] »

unishark wrote: post #450
Lambdanaut wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just" reciprocity? "Just" an eye for an eye? And when the other guy takes out our spleen, we should take out his too? And his muscles? His brain? And heart? Until we are both nothing but dust. Yes, let's reciprocate. Let us take until we are shit in the wind.

Or until both sides agree to bilaterally remove bans? Because unlike eyes, messaging can grow back.

[deleted]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#477

Post by kortilla »

donw wrote: post #407
peacefulhat wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Civil War 2 is an impossible fantasy. You need regional divisions in the military, which we don't have. These new alliances don't make sense either.

No, "American Civil War II" is an absolute nightmare scenario. I would go as far as to say we're in a cold one right now. I would not have imagined this possible four years ago, but now, given the level of division... yeah, it appears to be on the table. That's cause for fairly grave concern, by the way. Imagine that the election goes into a toss-up. Which it likely will. Both parties have been laying the groundwork…

Why would the states secede? What do they have to gain?

Calexit isn’t supported by even half of the California population. These scenarios are nothing more than fantasies for people who like to discuss war scenarios.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#478

Post by tekkk »

sdigital wrote: post #447
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

What's the point in reciprocity here? "And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

It forces the other party to change their behavior or at least gives you leverage to make a deal where both parties would agree on some equal set of rules. Here, the freedom to use US social media apps in China and vice versa.

It's an interesting turn of events, and I'm at least curious to see how this turns out. This is definitely not the start of WW3, as some have proclaimed, just US doing the same trick as China has been doing. Tensions were a lot higher during the Cold War.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#479

Post by matthewmacleod »

stale2002 wrote: post #437
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

Thats not unequal. They did it to us, so we are doing it to them. This is how trade relations have worked since forever. It is not complicated. If another country engages in negative trade actions to us, it seems reasonable to do similar trade sanctions against them, so that we are treating them similarly to how they are treating us. This is the basis of most international trade agreements and relations. If a country…

This is the sort of mindset you should grow out of around the age of 13.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#480

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

donw wrote: post #337
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

The US lost that near-monopoly years ago. Broadly speaking, I think we're witnessing the birth of three distinct global powers. One is centered on the US, and consists (broadly) of Canada, Mexico, the rest of Latin America, the Commonwealth nations, Japan, Korea, Israel, and Taiwan. An American civil war would destabilize this to a large degree, so we'll have to see if that plays out. Edit, since people seem confused…

You've completely forgotten India, which is really the one power that can credibly stand up to China on its own.
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