471–480 of 602 posts
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> In America, there are tens of millions of people who work more than one job. not simultaneously, or even interleaved in 30 minute increments.
Yes, but this is due to the fact that most jobs require your physical presence, Uber does not.
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I’ve been both a contractor directly for companies, and contracted through contracting companies (being an employee for a contracting company is usually called being a consultant, which I’ve also been). In either case I would not assume that I could arbitrarily sub-contract my work out to others.
The ability to subcontract is one of many tests for whether you are an independent contractor or not.
It’s a pretty ridiculous assertion to claim that you must be able to sub-contract to be a contractor, and I’d be surprised if there was even one jurisdiction in the world where that was true. It would mean you could never screen contractors.
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I'd argue that in the builder-app, the builder has now been transformed into an employee, same as an Uber driver. To me, "setting prices" is more than just refusing/accepting prices set by an algorithm/app, but the ability to negotiate those independently. In the cake example, a baker absolutely could attempt to negotiate for chocolate. They might not "win" the negotiation, but they have the option. Edit - in the tax…
As a counter example I bring you the Italian taxi system Cab drivers have to receive a public license from the city to work in that city (and can only have one) They can't decide the price, which is fixed according to some rules and are all the same for every cab in the city The shouldn't sell the licence even if most of them do (gray legal area) But they are not considered employees of the city but as freelancers Ho…
- The rates are rather high, so the e.g. the costs for the car are taken into account and still the driver earns a decent living
- The city does not take a significant share of every fare paid
As long as the system is somewhat balanced and no turbo capitalism exploiting drivers in a weak position nobody tries it up to the supreme court. (In the US the legal system is less balanced, so I don't think Uber drivers would make it to the supreme court, not even dreaming of getting a similar verdict.)
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Just a few days ago I had some drunk customers screaming at me in my cab and shaking my seat under the impression I was legally required to drive them. They earned a very long walk home to think about it. I had a nearly identical situation when I Ubered. In spite of multiple warnings, their behavior didn't improve. When I dropped them off in the middle of nowhere they insisted that I was required by law to carry them…
Did you have any trouble with Uber over that or were you simply able to cancel with no drama?
In my experience, the first thing that happens when anyone calls Uber with a complaint is they get their fare refunded. That's usually enough to cool most people off.
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In Brazil the federal law L12468 [1] regulates the taxi driver profession. The federal law L8078 [2], known as the Consumer Protection Code, protects (as the name says) the consumer in any transaction, be it products or services. The section 39 subsection 9 states that: "Art. 39. É vedado ao fornecedor de produtos ou serviços, dentre outras práticas abusivas: [...] IX - recusar a venda de bens ou a prestação de servi…
I find it amusing that in the course of chiding me for allegedly assuming laws are the same in all countries you assumed I'm American (I'm not). I'm a taxi driver speaking generally about the differences in our job vs. Uber drivers. I will now step back and let the software developers argue about things they know nothing about.
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The inability to negotiate is the key point. On the point about choice, there are areas where drivers can drive for Uber or Lyft though so some drivers do have choice. Where I drove for Uber, there were five platforms. But Uber had 90%+ of the rides. In a year, I think I got one Lyft request, and nothing from any of the others. If there were plenty of customers on all platforms your statement might be valid, but that…
What's the cost of a customer switching platforms?
Generally speaking, Lyft costs more than Uber, but you get a better class of passengers and a better class of drivers.
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I think the strongest argument against this point of view is that the drivers can opt to work for multiple car services to get a handle on their price structures. It's certainly possible for a traditional employer to allow that arrangement, but you have to admit it is an uncommon thing. It's much more analogous to a contractor working for a general contractor -- if I'm a plumber I can take gigs from multiple general…
If people were taking home $100k driving for Uber I would accept this argument, since I wouldn't want to interrupt the good opportunity with regulations. As it is, I see the preponderance of arguments on the side of it being regular employment without the expected benefits. For what it's worth every Uber ride I've taken I would have taken at double the price, it's possible they could afford to pay their full time dri…
So only rich people should have opportunities?
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I think the strongest argument against this point of view is that the drivers can opt to work for multiple car services to get a handle on their price structures. It's certainly possible for a traditional employer to allow that arrangement, but you have to admit it is an uncommon thing. It's much more analogous to a contractor working for a general contractor -- if I'm a plumber I can take gigs from multiple general…
Now they will probably lock a driver to their service and then a new fight will ensue when courts try to rule that is not allowed and find a new class to these drivers in.
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> That's not possible with Uber - there is no price negotiation - only declining/accepting a ride. That is price negotiation. The market price changes all the time in response to supply and demand. If you're not willing to do it for a lower price and someone else is, you lose business to them. An hour later there is more demand and you can get some business at your price. Or you can lower your price (accept both ride…
Take it or leave it isn't really negotiation, though, is it. There's no counter offer or alternative terms to work with. As I understand too many declines get drivers kicked off the platform, so their autonomy in this regard seems fairly limited.
Competition does the rest.
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This regulation is specifically about Uber, and it's also easy to forget what regulations can harm and the unintended consequences they create. Balance is key, and that seems to be have been entirely missed here. > 9 year old have worked in mines before working age was regulated. I know. They weren't forced to work, they were hired because it was legal and families back then depended on their income. Children still w…
Oh come on, of course those kids were forced to work in those mines. They weren't allowed to refuse. They had to do whatever their parents told them to. The alternative was being a homeless street urchin.