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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#471

Post by joshuamorton »

lyudmil wrote: post #374
ttul wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

Ah, but that's the issue. As currently constructed, the espionage act cannot be challenged in court. Assange would want to argue that he isn't a spy, but a whistleblower. The argument would be that he willingly broke a law in order to expose more illegal behavior by the government. In order to make that argument, he has to be allowed to talk about what the government does. Under the espionage act, though, the governm…

This is plainly false. The judge is the one who decides if the actions of the government bare relevant. If the judge believes they are, they will be admitted, and parts of the trial will be closed, but other parts will remain open.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#472

Post by Haga »

dependenttypes wrote: post #229
ttul wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

I believe that it is better to be free and seem like a coward than be punished via a process which I believe is unfair and spend the rest of my life in jail or worse.

Miss Mannings first thought in the cell Shirley was "that will show them."

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#473

Post by samdfonseca »

atoav wrote: post #458
samdfonseca wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "arbitrary confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy, and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" Not only hyperbole, but it's entirely self-imposed. He wasn't confined to the embassy, he chose to stay there rather than face trial. He chose "deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" over defending himself a…

“Come out and we will tell you what you’re guilty of”. The US was once a great defender of liberty and democrac, but when you talk to its average citizen nowaday you start to get truely weimarian vibes.

His actions are entirely undemocratic. Sweden and the US have both democratically built a system of justice that we all agree to subject ourselves to. He decided to evade that system to serve his own self-interest. What about defending the liberty of the alleged rape victim? Do they only have the right to their day in court if the accused is ok with it?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#474

Post by jki275 »

seirl wrote: post #396
blattimwind wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

Yeah, the "few aspects" like the prison system, healthcare, inequality, corruption, homelessness rates, freedom of the press, air pollution, crime rates, discrimination, police violence, homicide rates, unemployment benefits, social nets...

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay?

For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out.

Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single person they know has done everything they can to get out.

Getting out is the primary motivator for people in developing countries. Whining about the country being unfair is something that perhaps privileged children who know nothing about "developing countries" do -- other people get out.

The US is nothing like a developing country.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#475

Post by jki275 »

vintermann wrote: post #419
papito wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in this case, William Barr really doesn't want Assange here, in order to protect his client, Donald J. Trump. And that's why we will not see the extradition to the United States while the Justice Department has been essentially neutered by, what would you call it? Deep State?

I'm more inclined to think Trump's impeachment will be well timed to the date of Assange's extradition. The three letter agencies can live with an erratic president, but not one that might pardon or otherwise protect Assange. (Barr will eventually side with them, not Trump)

I think you don't know how impeachment works. Trump will not be removed from office, no matter what the lower house of the US government happens to do.

The Senate would have to have 67 votes in a majority republican controlled body to remove him. That simply will not happen -- even in the House, which is politically far more independent, the Democratic Party was not able to get a single Republican vote, and even had defectors from their own party just to authorize the proceedings at all.

You can't win an impeachment trial without broad bipartisan support, and there is exactly zero bipartisan support for this proceeding.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#476

Post by im3w1l »

dependenttypes wrote: post #371
mariorossi666 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it means that those attacks that the intelligence community prevented will take place.

If I commit a murder I will go to jail, even if I make a magical pill that instantly cures cancer and AIDS. The same sadly does not happen for the intelligence community. They can murder as many innocent people as they want without having to prove their usefulness.

If you made a magical pill that cured cancer and AIDS, and the medical establishment lost trillions of dollar, and were outspoken about trying to destroy you...

Then I would consider the possibility that they were framing you.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#477

Post by tremon »

nemo wrote: post #381
k1m wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it remarkable that so many here feel they are in a better position to assess whether Assange's human rights have been violated than experts on the topic at the UN who've spent considerable time looking into his situation.

Appealing to authority is a lot less persuasive when it's a non-binding report from a minor working group. I read their account. It was poorly argued and inconsistent. Should we really accept a case that's made because of the authority making the argument rather than the argument itself?

Then make your case on your disagreements with that report, not on your (frivolous) assumption that he would have had a fair trial.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#478

Post by annadane »

zaarn wrote: post #261
762236 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is currently held in solitary confinement, with 1 hour outside his cell per day. That is torture.

And the years before he spent time in an embassy on his own free will, the solitary confinement is new.

Don't you ever, ever try to pollute the well of truth with your own fucked up version. Why do you even bother commenting?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#479

Post by paulmd »

jki275 wrote: post #474
seirl wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the "few aspects" like the prison system, healthcare, inequality, corruption, homelessness rates, freedom of the press, air pollution, crime rates, discrimination, police violence, homicide rates, unemployment benefits, social nets...

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

Largely because people have roots here and it's a pain to move. What, you're supposed to quit your job, leave your extended family, sell your house and possessions, find a new job and place to live overseas, and potentially even learn an entire new language? Just to be sure you won't be tortured?

(assuming you can even find a place to take you - things are easier here for this crowd, tech skills are in-demand and usually open doors, but if you are highly skilled in working a register at K-Mart you're not going to find many countries open to you when you go to immigrate somewhere else.)

For a lot of people it's just easier to take the chance that you won't be one of the people who falls into the gears of justice. I won't even say "don't commit a crime" because (a) committing a crime is not even necessarily a requirement to end up in prison given how bad our judicial system is particularly surrounding plea deals/etc. Lots of innocent people end up in jail. And (b) virtually everyone regularly does things that are, by a strict enforcement of the US legal code, punishable by prison sentences. "3 felonies a day" is perhaps an exaggeration, but 3 felonies a month or a year is still a lot of potential legal exposure. The system relies heavily on prosecutorial discretion, which falls apart when you have prosecutors who are elected on the basis of high conviction rates instead of doing what is just.

To put it simply: 1% chance of being tortured, vs having to uproot your whole life. A lot of people will choose the 1% chance of being tortured.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#480

Post by kls »

jancsika wrote: post #320
duxup wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

> I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. Yeah, it's funny how HN typically goes evidence-free where pet politics is concerned. I'll eat my hat if someone on here can name a single precedent of someone being tortured in the U.S. before being tried for a crime similar to what Assange would be accused of. Edit: and citations, please!

Given that he is not a US citizen, one could make the argument that he was engaged in cyber warfare against the US, thus legally classified as an enemy combatant, subject to special magistrate court and incarcerate-able at an offshore detention facility. Rules on detainee handling there are more lax and sentencing has no guidelines at least no published ones. I would consider that possible path of prosecution and even the threat of it to be torture.
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