Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links • Hacker News Board

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#471

Post by iokanuon » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #428

kgersen75 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so the App Mafia is supposed to host your app for free? provide the bandwidth to download it for free ? give visibility to your app thru search in the store for free ? at some point someone gonna pay for the datacenters, the wires and all these stuff needed for software distribution. Try running your own site on your own servers and paying for the data traffic and then do the math. 30% is ok

Ok, let's do the math: Say app has 10MiB, 100,000 downloads is ~1TiB, 1 have a 1GiB/20GiB VPS with that monthly bandwidth which I pay $1/month. So distributing 100,000 copies costs $1. I'll give Google $1 for distribution of 100000 copies of my app. Fair? Yeah, I'll give Google a bit more for payment processing, perhaps. But actual distribution costs nothing really, for most apps.

Remember that creating a Google Play account already costs $20, so for the most people the distribution costs are far more than covered.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#472

Post by esotericn » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

zrobotics wrote: post #469

Kalium wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a lawsuit that people are afraid of. It's potential action from financial regulators, who are famously inflexible and disinterested in being nice to open source software developers in genuine financial need. Parties like Google and Apple are well aware of the potential consequences, and thus are similarly inflexible and disinterested in being nice to a fairly small group of use-cases that exposes them to an…

Really? Because Chrome allows me to navigate to all manner of sketchy sites- should Google be dropping Chrome? I mean, it's about as specious of reasoning as claiming that financial regulators will go after Google over donation buttons in apps. At that point, the whole thing is so far removed that it feels like being worried over getting struck by lightning. Heck, Chrome will even autofill a saved card into a donatio…

So many services use KYC/AML stuff as a catch-all excuse because it's easy to claim 'tip-off' provisions and just flat out refuse with no further information.

It's just your bog standard wanky corporate dishonesty. Nothing new under the sun.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#473

Post by Kalium » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

zrobotics wrote: post #469

Kalium wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a lawsuit that people are afraid of. It's potential action from financial regulators, who are famously inflexible and disinterested in being nice to open source software developers in genuine financial need. Parties like Google and Apple are well aware of the potential consequences, and thus are similarly inflexible and disinterested in being nice to a fairly small group of use-cases that exposes them to an…

Really? Because Chrome allows me to navigate to all manner of sketchy sites- should Google be dropping Chrome? I mean, it's about as specious of reasoning as claiming that financial regulators will go after Google over donation buttons in apps. At that point, the whole thing is so far removed that it feels like being worried over getting struck by lightning. Heck, Chrome will even autofill a saved card into a donatio…

Google does not exercise significant control over what websites a user can visit with Chrome. They certainly don't maintain a whitelist. Some might opine that the Play store is perhaps a slightly different matter.

It may also be worth considering that actions can, at some times and in some situations, be taken by human beings for multiple reasons with multiple independent motivations. All of which are real, genuine reasons.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#474

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #453

Kalium wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a lawsuit that people are afraid of. It's potential action from financial regulators, who are famously inflexible and disinterested in being nice to open source software developers in genuine financial need. Parties like Google and Apple are well aware of the potential consequences, and thus are similarly inflexible and disinterested in being nice to a fairly small group of use-cases that exposes them to an…

Unless you're casting literally any action ever as being subject to "potential action from financial regulators", which is theoretically true but simply asinine to discuss, this completely misses the point. It is not a real concern for Google to have a hyperlink https://wireguard.com/donations buried inside an app distributed on the Google Play Store. I don't believe your concern is legitimate. It's arse covering gon…

Your rhetorical is not equivalent. Google Play Store is a marketplace. Google facilitates transactions -- from users to app developers. Some transactions are free, but Google's financial partnerships might mandate that certain regulations apply to the entire Google Play Store ecosystem. I could be wrong, but I'd reckon this is a grey area and Google is opting to avoid the problem altogether (IMO a bad choice).

This website is different -- not just free -- there is no financial partnership in play (as far as I'm aware). But rules still apply. If you put a link in your profile taking donations for Syria, the operators of this site are obligated to comply with OFAC sanctions and I'd expect your profile to change pretty quickly.

In this case, I'm guessing Google is opting to choose the path of least resistance, and rather than perform due diligence and KYC for apps which solicit donations, they've chosen to just... not do that.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#475

Post by TomMarius » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

martin_a wrote: post #434

ceph_ wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was a normal in-app payment it would go through Google. Where it could be tracked, identified as fraud, and stopped.

You misspelled "Where it benefits Google, no matter whether it's fraud or not".

I am okay with that. No one is forcing anyone to use the Google service.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#476

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #392

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because Google or it's financial partners have compliance programs that require all money flows they enable go through the required regulatory channels. If an affiliated party is breaking regulations, you can often get in trouble by continuing to be associated with them once you're aware, and ignorance isn't a valid defense.

It's unlikely that GitHub subjects themselves to legal risk by allowing developers to link to Patreon [1]. I think this issue has more to do with Google's priorities, than what is legally possible. [1] https://help.github.com/en/articles/displaying-a-sponsor-but...

Patreon assumes the bulk of the legal risk, and GitHub probably is ok with Patreon.

FWIW I agree with you, Google isn't prioritizing solving this properly and is opting to take the easy way out

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#477

Post by sleepychu » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #466

tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

Their house, their rules.

A great way to have nobody come to your parties.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#478

Post by diminoten » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

catalogia wrote: post #465

diminoten wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never said it wasn't? Just pointing out how silly this stance is.

Balking at the difference between 30% and 3% is just as silly to you as balking at the difference between 3% and 0%?

Yes, because the balk is at the concept not the amount.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#479

Post by enginaar » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #437

megous wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let's do the math: Say app has 10MiB, 100,000 downloads is ~1TiB, 1 have a 1GiB/20GiB VPS with that monthly bandwidth which I pay $1/month. So distributing 100,000 copies costs $1. I'll give Google $1 for distribution of 100000 copies of my app. Fair? Yeah, I'll give Google a bit more for payment processing, perhaps. But actual distribution costs nothing really, for most apps.

Google also does the work of keeping fake versions of your app out of the store. I remember that being a problem in the app store for windows phones. Lots of fake apps that used the VLC name and logo, for example.

Android is worth sh*t without any apps. I consider providing a market for apps and managing the quality of the market is their responsibility, business expense not developers.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#480

Post by esotericn » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #474

esotericn wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're casting literally any action ever as being subject to "potential action from financial regulators", which is theoretically true but simply asinine to discuss, this completely misses the point. It is not a real concern for Google to have a hyperlink https://wireguard.com/donations buried inside an app distributed on the Google Play Store. I don't believe your concern is legitimate. It's arse covering gon…

Your rhetorical is not equivalent. Google Play Store is a marketplace. Google facilitates transactions -- from users to app developers. Some transactions are free, but Google's financial partnerships might mandate that certain regulations apply to the entire Google Play Store ecosystem. I could be wrong, but I'd reckon this is a grey area and Google is opting to avoid the problem altogether (IMO a bad choice). This w…

They haven't chosen to just "not do that".

They've chosen to pre-emptively cover their arse against a risk less likely than an asteroid hitting Earth by just nuking the apps.

There's another thread on HN about this right now - I don't know how these people can like, exist, in this world, with every one of the hairs on their head individually combed into a perfect slick. Can you even eat breakfast without worrying about some tail risk?

Too much HN for today, methinks. I'm so glad that the normal people I interact with in the world aren't this wanky (I don't mean you or other posters here, but the bureautwats that actually implement this stuff)