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Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

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Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#471

Post by rsync »

cm2187 wrote: post #343
m-p-3 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as I can keep the TV offline to operate it I'm fine with it. The day it needs to be online to work is where I'll be seriously pissed enough that I'll return it without hesitation.

Like Sonos did. And I did what you said. Into the trash can.

Sonos needs to be called out for the dramatic disparity between how they present their products and what those products actually do.

Their userbase is almost universally clueless as to what it is these devices are doing and what the goals of Sonos, as a company, must be.

They should have been one of the good ones - and I had such enthusiasm for their products - but they have proven to be very, very antagonistic towards their users.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#472

Post by squarefoot »

natmaka wrote: post #401
squarefoot wrote: post #394

I wouldn't be that hard to make a small firewall to put in between the TV and the Internet, with rules that block unwanted traffic - or better, block it and inject fake data - while allowing normal use of the TV. This cheap SBC comes to mind, there's a very similar one from OrangePI too. https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&... It would be nice having say a version for traveling with laptops et…

How will it detect unwanted (spying) traffic from legitimate operations (software update...)? Moreover it is a moving target, as the firmware can, at some point in time, use another endpoint (especially after an update).

"How will it detect unwanted (spying) traffic from legitimate operations (software update...)?"

That would be harder, especially true in case of encrypted traffic.

"Moreover it is a moving target, as the firmware can, at some point in time, use another endpoint (especially after an update)."

This one might be easier to fight than the former. Upgradabe black lists might be a solution, not unlike some antispam software work: the firewall software downloads weekly/daily from a central server (1) a list of all legit/evil addresses and checks where the TV attempts to connect against that list, then filters traffic as required.

(1) I would assume we would trust a centralized server for this purpose as much as we would trust a server holding spam and malware sites.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#473

Post by TremendousJudge »

m_eiman wrote: post #329
ghostpepper wrote: post #312

I would love to update my 10 year old 1080p Philips non-smart TV to a 55" or so 4K HDR screen but I don't want any of the smart features. Does anyone know of any manufacturers selling high end "dumb" TVs? For now I'm comfortable using my appleTV but I like the fact that I can disconnect it at any time. I want a TV that will simply display whatever signal it receives without any connectivity required.

I'm using an LG OLED TV (2018 model I think) with an Apple TV, and it's working pretty much exactly like a dumb screen. I haven't connected the TV to the network, and I control everything with the Apple TV remote - it turns on the TV via HDMI CEC as needed, and when I turn off the Apple TV the TV turns off too. I've also connected my home theater system via HDMI ARC to get better sound, and CEC turns on and off the s…

I'm using a Raspi4 with Libreelec (this is kodi) and I have had pretty much a similar experience (but with a bunch of OSS quirks of course). A nice surprise is that I can actually control the kodi interface with my TV remote

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#475

Post by JohnFen »

gruez wrote: post #454
delfinom wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? By putting in cellular or sat connections in secret? Because the FCC would be very interested in someone selling unlabeled and unlicensed radio containing equipment.

Would it need to be labeled if they were plugging in a 5G pci-e/USB WAN module?

Yes

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#476

Post by JohnFen »

Avamander wrote: post #406
flukus wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do they make per user? I would have have thought it was in the $10-$20 range and not enough to trigger any price sensitivity. I'm a tightass with an aldi TV but wouldn't have cared if it cost $10 more.

The data of one user is worthless AFAIK, only aggregation gives any usable stats.

Then why do ad networks spend so much time, energy, and money to track individuals?

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#477

Post by drewmol »

xxs wrote: post #279
dontbenebby wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This data is becoming a huge mechanism for subsidizing TV sales and the interactivity is being looked at as a huge opportunity to recoup some of the ad spend being lost via streaming and fewer 30 second spots So what are the options for a consumer willing to pay for privacy? Will console manufacturers be more respectful for example? (I've considered a console to serve as a bluray player / host OS for streaming apps…

pihole (while list DNS, etc.) or not connecting the TV to internet, block it by MAC entirely on the router. >Or are we stuck using dumb tvs and connecting out laptops to them via HDMI? (And thus no 4K iirc) HDMI 2.0 (2013) supports 4k/60Hz. HDMI 2.1 is significantly more ambitious with 8/10k resolution and variable refresh rate.

The 4K comment was likely in refrence to streaming providers like Netflix, etc. which don't offer 4K content playback on devives which are not deemed to be adequately locked down, which is a typically a stipulation of their content licensing agreements.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#478

Post by rsync »

nyolfen wrote: post #218
markovbot wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, don't buy samsung TVs on principal.

i have read repeatedly on this site that it is effectively impossible to buy a new dumb tv unless you get the kind of commercial ones meant for installation on walls in commercial buildings etc

"... effectively impossible to buy a new dumb tv unless you get the kind of commercial ones meant for installation on walls in commercial buildings ..."

Which is great news - they are fantastic displays, they last forever, and they behave just like a very big computer monitor.

NEC commercial displays (P461, for instance) are not expensive. I highly recommend you look into it.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#479

Post by JohnFen »

jchrome wrote: post #455
76 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are spying on millions of people without their consent and without telling them about it. In what universe is this legitimate and non-evil?

"They are spying on millions of people" If you consider tracking an anonymous identifier for the purposes of better marketing "spying" then I think that's a stretch. Calling out TV in particular for it is a bit silly - it's simply everywhere. "...without their consent and without telling them about it." Yes they are. You opt in or out when you buy the TV. They tell you about it then. You can be like most people and n…

> If you consider tracking an anonymous identifier for the purposes of better marketing "spying" then I think that's a stretch

If information about me or my machines is being collected without my express informed consent, that counts as spying.

Also "anonymous identifier" is a bit of an oxymoron. If the identifier is unique, then anonymity is not part of the equation.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#480

Post by TheHegemon »

rsync wrote: post #471
cm2187 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Sonos did. And I did what you said. Into the trash can.

Sonos needs to be called out for the dramatic disparity between how they present their products and what those products actually do. Their userbase is almost universally clueless as to what it is these devices are doing and what the goals of Sonos, as a company, must be. They should have been one of the good ones - and I had such enthusiasm for their products - but they have proven to be very, very antagonistic towar…

Wait, what is Sonos doing that am I missing?
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