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Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

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Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#451

Post by Kneecaps07 »

ghostpepper wrote: post #312

I would love to update my 10 year old 1080p Philips non-smart TV to a 55" or so 4K HDR screen but I don't want any of the smart features. Does anyone know of any manufacturers selling high end "dumb" TVs? For now I'm comfortable using my appleTV but I like the fact that I can disconnect it at any time. I want a TV that will simply display whatever signal it receives without any connectivity required.

You can just get a smart TV and don't connect it to your network. They still have HDMI ports so you can connect whatever you want.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#452

Post by minitech »

delfinom wrote: post #441
Kaiyou wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure it's offline? Possibly it has wireless capabilities that work without your consent..

How? By putting in cellular or sat connections in secret? Because the FCC would be very interested in someone selling unlabeled and unlicensed radio containing equipment.

By connecting to open wi-fi, supposedly, maybe with the help of some kind of dark pattern: https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/bpjky4/worried_ab...

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#453

Post by pacala »

danmg wrote: post #446
pacala wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% of us will take the troubles to protect themselves. We'll even marginally succeed, as long as we don't go out in public or visit a friend's house. Too expensive to circumvent protections if the other 99% have no [time to develop an] understanding of what they are exposed to.

Smart TVs will start including bluetooth sniffing so they'll know how many people are watching and who.

We'll install 5G connected, AI powered cameras and far-field microphones in your TV, to measure the emotional impact of our ads. To offer you a better service [TM].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#454

Post by gruez »

delfinom wrote: post #441
Kaiyou wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure it's offline? Possibly it has wireless capabilities that work without your consent..

How? By putting in cellular or sat connections in secret? Because the FCC would be very interested in someone selling unlabeled and unlicensed radio containing equipment.

Would it need to be labeled if they were plugging in a 5G pci-e/USB WAN module?

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#455

Post by jchrome »

76 wrote: post #335
nerdponx wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny about this is that I think this is a legitimate and relatively non-evil use case. It all comes down to lack of transparency/oversight and the option to exercise control as an individual.

They are spying on millions of people without their consent and without telling them about it. In what universe is this legitimate and non-evil?

"They are spying on millions of people"

If you consider tracking an anonymous identifier for the purposes of better marketing "spying" then I think that's a stretch. Calling out TV in particular for it is a bit silly - it's simply everywhere.

"...without their consent and without telling them about it."

Yes they are. You opt in or out when you buy the TV. They tell you about it then. You can be like most people and not read the fine print, but then don't be all surprised when someone's pulling the wool over your eyes.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#456

Post by foobarrio »

xcgfhgjbjhb wrote: post #193
obmelvin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roku enabled TVs very clearly send back frames of what you are watching. I've been watching YouTube casted via chromecast plugged into HDMI (NOT the built in chromecast, I have verified multiple times) and the Roku will give me a full width toast saying to press `*` to watch the full movie or some similar contextual option I was pretty put off the first time this happened. That said, I don't even know if I looked thr…

I worked on that. It sends audio and/or video fingerprints (not frames, for privacy and bandwidth reasons), which are matched against a fingerprint database. Whatever people see on TV is usually 10 to 60 seconds behind the real live stream at the broadcaster (which is where the reference fingerprinting happens). GeoIP data can be used to roughly deduce where the TV is located, in order to better filter out false posi…

What is the video fingerprinting method used? Is it a publicly known algo? I was using a combination of "dhash" for individual frames and "simhash" to generate shingles for a bunch of videos and it worked "ok" but not as efficient as I wanted.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#457

Post by jchrome »

Silhouette wrote: post #274
jchrome wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called ACR data and it’s very common. And yes, TVs are phoning home with it. And GDPR only requires that you opt in. So when you sign into the TV for the first time, it gives you an opt in choice and many do it. The States is less regulated but will be soon.

It isn't nearly as easy as you're suggesting to escape the scope of GDPR protections. There could be sensitive personal data or data about children involved. Even if it's just some identifiable individual in the screenshot, you still can't just rely on some sneaky "consent" as a blank cheque - that is merely a possible lawful basis for processing, and all the other provisions of the GDPR still apply. Edit: Also, on y…

Fair point on the screenshot. Yea I dont think any TV is phoning home with screenshots. Rather it's phoning home with a processed signal of the A/V in order to ID that A/V. If there is A/V that cannot be recognized, it may phone home a screenshot of that.

And I also don't think it's easy to escape the scope of GDPR. I'm just saying companies come up with ways of being "GDPR compliant" and they've done so.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#458

Post by Unklejoe »

wodenokoto wrote: post #358
freeone3000 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it interferes with the idea of a TV being a display. A TV should not have apps. If it does have apps, these apps should not communicate data to the manufacturer. It shouldn't send back data about the operating system because a TV shouldn't have an operating system.

Of course a TV should have an operating system. It needs menu's and options, video and audio codecs, up and downscaling algorithms and many many other things, just to be a dumb TV.

You don't really need an operating system for any of that.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#459

Post by october_sky »

Kneecaps07 wrote: post #450
lrem wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance attempted that with Kindle, by keeping it in flight mode. After some days it popped up a message kindly asking to give it some network access. After a few more days it simply ignored the flight mode and connected to get fresh ads. Edit: I've checked with my wife who has an ad supported Kindle for over a year and keeps it in flight mode for months at a time. It never did that to her. So either Amazon c…

I leave my Kindle in airplane mode for weeks at a time and have never experienced this. I've had Kindles for 6 or 7 years now.

Same. My ~2017 Kindle stays on airplane mode for weeks/months at a time. It's the only device I read on, so I leave it in airplane mode to save battery. I've never had it re-enable wifi.

Re: Smart TVs sending sensitive user data to Netflix and Facebook

#460

Post by tenebrisalietum »

mikeryan wrote: post #50

This is a pretty open secret within the industry. Geographic data can be provided via setup (a lot of TV's ask for a zip code on setup) or usually simply via GeoIP lookup. Dig a bit deeper and you get into service provided by Samba TV and or Inscape and you can find that they're sending back frames of video in a lot of cases to track what you're watching. This data is becoming a huge mechanism for subsidizing TV sale…

I'm more worried about this eventually being tied into some copyright enforcement mechanism (Cinavia on steroids) than anything else.
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