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I have no side code projects to show you

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#471

Post by mi100hael »

asmdev wrote: post #340
mi100hael wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? If someone knows that much git, I'd hire them regardless. I'm so sick of untangling other peoples failed merges or trying to explain what the "not a fast-forward" issue means when their push fails.

To be fair to the people whose merges failed, I believe this is a shortcoming of git (the tool) and not the people using it. It is fair to expect a developer to invest sometime in learning their tools well but git is a different beast. I know it solves a very complex problem but the fact that it exposes a complex interface to the user to do so seems like a shortcoming of the tool to me. Heck, we even have a comic for…

> To be fair to the people whose merges failed, I believe this is a shortcoming of git (the tool) and not the people using it.

I disagree. Like everyone, I've experienced a failed merge that turns into a diff nightmare. However, when it has happened I've figured out how to solve it myself instead of wasting someone else's time with it, and it hasn't happened in years now leading me to believe it is directly correlated with git skill-level.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#472

Post by bad_user »

When it comes to open source on GitHub, what most people miss is that you don't necessarily need to do it in your free time. This is in general a misconception.

There are actually two scenarios which don't involve coding in your free time:

1. As software developers we are generating by-products all the time. And the trained eye can recognize reusable scripts that can be packaged and placed on GitHub. If you don't have a GitHub account with such by-products, then you probably have rotting folders on your hard drive with reusable stuff that will eventually wither away.

Good companies encourage or at least tolerate employees that do this, because it leads to higher quality code (by putting it out there, preparing it for the scrutiny of others), because it's good marketing for reaching job candidates and because once in a while such a projects ends up having other users, which end up contributing feedback, bug fixes or even features, aka work for free.

2. We end up using a lot of open-source libraries and tools and we don't have the resources to pay for support for all of them, plus if we are honest about it, we are cheap bastards in terms of wanting to pay other people money for the tools we depend on.

Open-source is a about having control. Does it have a bug, or a feature missing? You can code it yourself and send a PR. Which in many cases is quite easy if you've been working with the library or tool in question for a longer time — all it takes is for you to know what's needed.

As a software developer, you might work in an industry that doesn't benefit much from open-source, or in a company that doesn't allow such contributions.

Which is fine, but know that in many companies the people that have public projects to show the world will get picked over those that don't. It's simple market economics really — in absence of open source contributions, all you have to show for your work at that cool startup is a nice story of how it died or went sour. And some ranty blog posts.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#473

Post by pc86 »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

The best piece of advice I got about hiring was that the interview is to find a reason to say no. Too many people want (expect?) the point to be to find a reason to say yes. For better or worse, some companies will use lack of OSS contributions or side projects as a reason to say no.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#474

Post by pc86 »

nanodano wrote: post #367
chrisco255 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a software engineer who does technical interviews, I also regularly review GitHub contributions if mentioned on the resume. It's not a deal killer if someone doesn't have these things...but if you're up against another candidate who does (and their work is good)...then the other candidate is likely getting the job.

What % of candidates have side projects to show you? When I did interviews, I saw probably less than 10% have any side projects to show.

I work in consulting, almost entirely for federal and state government. Here that number is low single digits.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#475

Post by Halladie7 »

beejiu wrote: post #440
333c wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for the bootcamp grads who all have identical Githubs Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? What sorts of things do they all have in common?

From my experience (of talking to bootcamp applicants), bootcamps are not so much about learning how to code, but rather how to get an entry-level job. At first glance of somebody's Github, it will look like they have lots of open-source projects and collaborate with other people. But this is just part of the bootcamp "script".

Bingo! Bootcamps are basically multiple month training sessions for interviews. Princeton Review for dev jobs.

Regardless, I actually think this paradigm works for entry level jobs at most companies. You don't have to know anything for your first year in most cases. You just have to be able to show up and follow instructions.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#477

Post by onion2k »

nanodano wrote: post #386
vonnik wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is confusing the search for passion with the search for better information. If you can’t share code from past and current employers, and you don’t believe that your quick and dirty solution during the interview represents your best work, then a side project that shows a little carefully crafted code is one way to give a potential employer better information. And better information derisks hiring de…

Everyone is responsible for showcasing their skills and selling themselves. People who refuse to do that are only hurting themselves.

People who refuse to do that are only hurting themselves.

If an employer passes on candidate for the wrong reason then the employer is hurt as well. A good hiring process shouldn't rule out people for reasons that aren't related to their capability to do what they'll need to do in the job, and very few jobs require a good github profile. It's a useful proxy for development ability and passion, but that's all. You can be an awesome developer and never touch Github.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#478

Post by pault »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

Do the side projects have to be domain specific? What if I were applying for a front end developer job and had some hobby projects doing GPU shaders or a toy database in C?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#479

Post by jordanpg »

nanodano wrote: post #386
vonnik wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is confusing the search for passion with the search for better information. If you can’t share code from past and current employers, and you don’t believe that your quick and dirty solution during the interview represents your best work, then a side project that shows a little carefully crafted code is one way to give a potential employer better information. And better information derisks hiring de…

Everyone is responsible for showcasing their skills and selling themselves. People who refuse to do that are only hurting themselves.

There seems to be a weird inversion in the minds of many commenters here: that they are somehow entitled to dictate the terms under which they are selected to work somewhere.

Isn't the point that if you want the job, you do whatever it takes?

Why are we not celebrating the fact that we work in a kind of meritocracy where it really is possible to showcase your skills without any credentials or reference to your past?

All of this bloviating about "wasted time" in the context of demonstrating skills reeks of bitterness from lost opportunities to me.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#480

Post by Thiez »

exodust wrote: post #415
jogjayr wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Not once has a potential employer ever said to me: "Based on your Github, you can obviously fizzbuzz with the best of them, and know a for-loop from an if-statement. Let's skip the phone screen/homework assignment and get you onsite directly."

Speaking of FizzBuzz, I had never heard of the fizzbuzz test until recently in interview. In 15 years of frontend work I've never needed to find if a number is divisible by another number, so I forgot about the modulus operator '%', and stumbled on that question. Apparently not knowing about that made me unqualified for the job, above all other evidence of my frontend work and achievements. It takes less than 10 seco…

There are plenty of ways to write fizzbuzz without the modulus operator, although it is the most obvious way. But you can also combine infinite streams, or keep track of the index of the next "fizz" and "buzz" with simple addition...
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