Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 503 posts

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#461

Post by codethief »

Aurornis wrote: post #261
bogwog wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> calls it a lame reduction of brain chemistry > posts a lame reduction of the argument

Argument was literally that “social media triggers dopamine” which was supposed to imply something else. Stop trying to say “dopamine” when you really mean to refer to a behavioral problem.

> Argument was literally that “social media triggers dopamine”

It wasn't though? They said

> the addictive patterns in these apps trigger dopamine the same way drugs do

(emphasis mine)

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#462

Post by codethief »

nadermx wrote: post #378

Why is it always people pushing government to replace parenting? My mother use to take away my computer if I didn't abide by her rules.

Unfortunately, your mother[0] is distracted by her phone these days, so she can't take away your computer.

[0]: Obviously not your mother. :)

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#463

Post by strathmeyer »

criddell wrote: post #54
anzerarkin wrote: post #22

I don’t think this is only a kids issue. A lot of adults need this too. The addictive apps are very well designed, while most blockers are either too easy to ignore or too annoying to keep using. I built a small iOS blocker because I had the same problem. Making it strict enough to actually work without making people hate it is the main challenge.

On the radio I heard a reporter talking about things China does during school exams. Apparently all schools have exams at the same time and during that period, social media shuts down at night. I forget the exact hours (10pm - 6am maybe). I'm starting to think that would be a great policy in general for everybody. I think they also said AI companies go offline during exam hours, but I may have got that wrong.

[dead]

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#464

Post by fc417fc802 »

tolerance wrote: post #454
fc417fc802 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legislation needs to be clear and unambiguous, sure. Nonetheless no one had chronological sort or raw vote count or whatever else in mind when they used the term "algorithm" here so pretending they did is obtuse and pedantic. Misinterpreting the position of the other party does not typically make for enlightening or insightful conversation. Cable TV is an example of something that no one is objecting to. The EU is ta…

> Nonetheless no one had chronological sort or raw vote count or whatever else in mind when they used the term "algorithm" here so pretending they did is obtuse and pedantic. No one until you it seems. > Cable TV is an example of something that no one is objecting to. @tencentshill's reference to cable TV originates from the question of whether Hacker News operates via algorithm and would be subject to the sweeping r…

I believe you are obtusely misinterpreting the other two commenters. The pedantry is your insistence on an overly zealous interpretation of the use of the word "algorithm" by @conception (well really it was @aurornis with the pedantry but you followed on). It's clear enough that the original wording was sloppy; forcing analysis of an unintended scenario isn't fruitful.

> I'm speculating on what would happen if the internet were to be regulated like television ...

You've lost me. Previously you were arguing that all platforms with user generated content would disappear. Now you appear to acknowledge that the scenario as described permits platforms that operate analogously to cable TV, which is to say they don't present individualized content.

I'm no longer clear what your current position is nor what you might be attempting to communicate to others or advocate for here.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#465

Post by hhjinks »

vasco wrote: post #103
noprocrasted wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the first video you show them Whatever is latest posted across their followings/subscriptions?

If they just signed up they have no followings or subscriptions. So now what, you need to show accounts to follow first? Thats the same problem as deciding what the first video to show is. How do you decide who they should follow? Or the vision is that you can only have friends as if it's 2005 and you can't discover anything serendipitously? I don't consume any content from my friends on something like tiktok where I…

>So now what, you need to show accounts to follow first

Youtube won't show you anything at all if you have a new account with watch history turned off. It says something like "turn on watch history and watch videos so we can recommend some for you".

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#466

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Aurornis wrote: post #84
conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

> If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present Hacker News is a site that presents data by algorithm. Under your definition, Hacker News goes away, too. A more accurate framing would be that they’re going after personalized recommendation algorithms. It’s not obvious that offering a recommendation algorithm would mean that the site is no lo…

When we talk about "The Algorithm" in terms of social media, the term has just about taken on a meaning opposite to the original one.

My coder's view of the simplest possible algorithm: "People that I follow, their posts, ordered by most recent first." it's transparent, easy to understand, consistent, and a few lines of code.

Big Social media's "The Algorithm" : a complex, utterly opaque, personally targeted, frequently shifting internal set of rules that they manipulate to maximise engagement and revenue, while hiding this from the users whole attention is being monetised, designed according to business priorities.

Clearly, if you use the second kind of Algorithm then you are no longer an impartial common carrier.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#467

Post by AlienRobot »

conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

>If you present data by algorithm

Define algorithm.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#468

Post by snowpid »

Aurornis wrote: post #264
afavour wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it speaks to the complete lack of government regulation in the area that people see such extreme answers as positive. If any government had seen fit to engage in light regulation of what social media can do people might be happier.

Evidence suggests the polar opposite. Governments have been working on regulating platforms. Every time they get close, there’s outrage when people realize what it means for them. Age regulations are the best example. Every time the topic comes up there is a lot of support for government regulation of social media by age. Then every time there comes an actual attempt at government regulation or even self-regulation b…

I think you are too much on Social Media.

Maybe the people of " Age regulations are the best example. Every time the topic comes up there is a lot of support for government regulation of social media by age." and " Then every time there comes an actual attempt at government regulation or even self-regulation by the companies, everyone goes ballistic when they realize what that regulation means." are different?

"This topic is awash in ideas that regulation will come in like a scalpel that only touches something that won’t affect anything we like, only hurt some companies in some specific way that doesn’t take anything away from us. This notion doesn’t survive contact with reality." Depends on the regulation. Also maybe the non intended effects are still worth to introduce the regulation?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#469

Post by AlienRobot »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #337
viktorcode wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "algorithm" then. I would argue that "sort by date, excluding stuff the user already watched" is already an algorithm.

This is just pedantic. "Algorithm" is obviously shorthand for: a recommendations system that shows me things I didn't explicitly opt into. Compare e.g. Mastodon vs Twitter or Bluesky. The former simply won't show you anything you didn't explicitly subscribe to, and there's no hidden ranking system. The law is not a computer program. It is up to human interpretation. The law merely needs to define the intent, which is…

I understand how you feel but you can't be like "I want the law to make things worse for these businesses" and then when asked to define the boundaries of the law you say "that's pedantic."

In many cases technology laws are myopic in that they only see the most massive websites and forget that there is a whole www outside facebook. Is sorted by likes/upvotes a recommendation? Is the total of likes of your friends a recommendation? Can only data points from the last week be considered? Can there be a falloff by age?

At which point does the weights of the variables start to constitute a "recommendation"?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#470

Post by snowpid »

irusensei wrote: post #326
buellerbueller wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-In the EU it is a political discussion. -In the USA, the government buys the data legally from the parties who are allowed to collect it and there are no political discussions. One of these is obviously better than the other.

> "In the EU, there is a a political discussion about outlawing privacy." > "In the US, the government is using illegal methods to violate rights granted by the constitution." Agreed one is obviously better than the other. The EU treats privacy as a privilege granted by the government while the US treats it as a fundamental right. I'm not a fan of the US gov but I also don't agree with the candy colored view of the E…

.."the US treats it as a fundamental right."

Not gonna lie, didnt expect on HN to forget this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_disclosures

Post reply on HN