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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#461

Post by dalyons »

bitexploder wrote: post #376
bayesnet wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hunch is that the people who buy an F-150 for groceries are not the people interested in buying EVs. The advantage of an EV truck is solely on cost and maintenance, so the natural market is businesses looking for practical vehicles, not people who buy impractical vehicles that are costly to operate for status reasons. Then again as I’m typing this I realize that I have a phone with a better processor than most com…

We have a f150 raptor and a rivian and a model 3. I drive the gas truck and the model 3. Depends on the weather. Truck is an amazing road tripper. We are not the typical customer, but we do exist.

thats like $250k of cars at new prices, yes you're not typical :)

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#462

Post by Dylan16807 »

tooltalk wrote: post #456
Dylan16807 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Getting in trouble doesn't make it anti-market. If you give stolen data to enough companies, you encourage competition more than you hinder it. 2) Restricting subsidies reduces the pro-market effect, but overall providing subsidies to such a big number of companies was pro-market. 3) Yes that's anti-market but when you're splitting up such a big market into two still very big markets it's not hugely anti-market. 4…

1) it was anti-market and that's why they were taken to the WTO, not the other around. This violation is also explicitly spelt out in Section 7 Non-Tariff Measures of China's 2001 WTO Accession Protocol. Not sure what point you are making with "stolen data," but subsidies must be given to all or none -- no picking winners or losers. The key idea here is a level playing field. 2) Restricting subsidies to some, but not…

1) Let me make a hypothetical. If you take tech from 2 companies and give it to 50 companies, that is both pro-market and something you will get sued for and lose.

2) You seem to be refusing to acknowledge that some actions have mixed consequences. Having many of those subsidies helped the market. Restricting them hurt the market compared to not restricting them. You can't look at just the restrictions to make the judgement, you have to look at the whole picture. Without the restrictions, they wouldn't have enacted the same subsidies.

3) If we're looking at just the internal market, then those policies made many more companies prosper and compete. I don't see how you can possibly say that they hurt the internal Chinese market! The EV market internal to China is far stronger than it would have been if the Chinese government sat there and did nothing.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#463

Post by Marsymars »

hypercube33 wrote: post #282
ecshafer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford announced the Maverick, it got so much excitement that it sold out and dealerships sold for over MSRP. So in their infinite wisdom they... didn't make more mid range trucks. Ill never understand these guys.

I was interested in this truck when it came out. My in laws purchased one and queued a second one up to have two reliable (new is reliable to them) in their retirement years. The price was good, its a smaller compact truck and very good on utility. The second generation of them - the price went up, and some of the value in what the truck was vanished. Its also years behind on production. Ford doesn't seem to want to…

The Mavs have been caught up on orders for a while now. I got one in the spring and pretty much any trim/colour/option package was in stock locally at mildly below msrp.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#464

Post by tokioyoyo »

themafia wrote: post #344
rsync wrote: post #233

We don't want your electric car ... we want your car, but electric . We want an electric F150 or an electric Suburban or v90 wagon or whatever. But instead we get e-initiative i-mobiles. We get TRON-cars. We get iModels. There is a reason for this: The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously. They believe that they can somehow retain all of t…

> The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously. So you're saying they make _less_ profit on the EVs? That seems dubious. > They believe that they can somehow retain all of the sales of the existing ICE model while adding growth sales of a different electric model. Well.. precisely. Isn't the solution to make the EVs more profitable than the IC…

When your entire supply chain is optimized in ICE vehicles, it’s a tough sell to re-org everything for EVs. And when you try to half-ass it, it doesn’t pan out well, and you end up in this situation.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#465

Post by Marsymars »

SoftTalker wrote: post #375
exabrial wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just love them as a symbol This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles. The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands…

Also, a truck can be used like a car. But a car cannot be used like a truck. If you need to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall, dimensional lumber, piping, ladders, etc a truck (or work van) is pretty much it. If I could only afford one car it would be a truck.

Hey, you can fit 4x8 in a Maverick, and that's barely a truck.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#466

Post by jeffbee »

NewJazz wrote: post #363
jeffbee wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Lightning is the 10th-best-selling EV in California and the Rivian R1T is not even in the top 25. Rivian is also one of the handful of brands selling fewer vehicles so far in 2025 compared to 2024.

Yeah but the R1S is a better pavement princess anyway, and that does sell well. I guess Mach-E beats even the R1S but they're not really the same kind of car. Ioniq 5 beats Mach E in CA, as does the MY.

I don't think the R1S and the F-150 should be compared because, on account of being registered as a commercial vehicle, the F-150 has noticeably higher operating costs.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#467

Post by dalyons »

echelon wrote: post #371
HankB99 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around. After many more billions are spent. Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive. US consumers are still really into…

> America has neither the interest nor the capital to chase EVs or force them down American consumer throats.

Ok so dont, but take the tariffs off batteries, and allow foreign EVs to compete fairly. We'll get affordable EVs, and then we'll see what the american consumer actually wants. No? Oh, i guess its about something other than consumer choice after all.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#468

Post by ssl-3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #426
qingcharles wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that has probably >100% pick-up ownership per adult male. I've noticed that these people will not go to the grocery store on days when the weather is inclement due to the chance of the groceries getting wet. Seems like a bad vehicle for grocery runs.

When I was a kid, my dad owned a pickup truck in Mississippi, and there seem to be tons of ways of avoiding getting the groceries wet, a bed-width toolbox behind the cab was the simplest way (and this was way before extended cabs were a thing). If you are living in such an area where they can't even figure that kind of thing out, it sounds like there might be something in the water.

When I was a kid, a normal-sized American adult could open up a bed-width toolbox, look down inside of it, and easily remove a few bags of groceries before re-closing the lid -- all while standing flat-footed on the ground beside their normal-sized American truck.

Things are not that way anymore; trucks got bigger.

The top of the bed rail of an F150 Lightning is around chin height for a lot of folks: https://imgur.com/ZBOBqJc

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#469

Post by NetMageSCW »

mattmaroon wrote: post #436
hypercube33 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Chevy has a 400 mile range, unknown but more than the 100 mile range the lightning has for towing and is a work truck at about 70k or something street price last I saw. Its compelling, where the lightning is not.

The Silverado EV does have a big battery, but for actual real world use you’re keeping it within a band of about 60% (20-80) so 400 is really 240 with an emergency reserve. (This is common to all EVs). You lose about half your range towing so you’re still going to drive two hours, stop for 30-45 minutes, repeat. So it’s still far from compelling for anyone towing or doing truck stuff.

If you are planning a trip and know you are, your first left is easily 20-100% or 80% range, and then it depends on charging speed versus stop purpose.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#470

Post by dalyons »

nine_k wrote: post #333
kjkjadksj wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rivians are all over socal. I think there is a lot of demand in certain markets.

In NYC al the Amazon delivery trucks I see are purpose-built Rivians. And this is the hyper-frugal, penny-pinching Amazon.

they save amazon a ton of money. urban circular delivery circuits and stop-start braking make it brutal for gas and perfect for EVs.
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