Harnessing America's heat pump moment • Hacker News Board

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#461

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

dns_snek wrote: post #381

glxxyz wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite for me, much bigger ROI on the heatpump than solar. Rural property, 10 years old, ~3,500 sq ft + basement, in Canada where summer can be above 30C (86F) and winter below -30C (-20F). Electricity costs (Canadian) 7.6 ¢/kWh off-peak and 15.8 ¢/kWh on-peak here. I spent C$40K (about US$30k) on a ground source aka 'geothermal' heat pump to replace furnace powered by propane tank. I kept propane for on-d…

> Net metering lets me 'store' excess from summer and use it in winter FYI net metering is unsustainable for the grid and policies will probably change (reducing rates for energy, increasing rates for delivery fees to offset the "freebies") as soon as adoption reaches a critical mass.

"All" it needs to be sustainable is a massive investment in storage systems (BESS, and/or others).

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#462

Post by brianwawok » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #429

steveBK123 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central air system with indoor blower & outdoor condenser generally don't come with pre-charged lines so self-install without certification isn't really an option in US.

I got my EPA 608 universal for free after 2 night of cramming and an online proctored test. Skillcat, I think they charge like $50 if you want a printed card, worth it to me because I wanted to be able to walk into supply houses and buy refrigerant.

Me too, except I got it in the SkillCat free trial. Did it while rocking my then baby over a few weeks. Super easy for anyone that is a “good” test taker and has high school level reading

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#463

Post by brianwawok » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #437

theoreticalmal wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how difficult it was to do this. I’m really glad to know it’s possible

Getting the 608 is mostly rote memorization and the only thing required at the federal level. On the state level if you want a trade license that generally takes 4 years, but where I live residential owner-builder doesn't need it.

608 lets you buy the refrigerant

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#464

Post by Marsymars » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

glxxyz wrote: post #186

bluGill wrote: post #50

When I replaced my furnace a couple years back I asked for a heat pump - a previous house had it and it worked great. Turns out my contractor didn't ask the right questions and so mine only works to 25F - it still outputs heat below that, but not enough to keep my house warm and so I use the backup furnace a lot more than I want to. A previous house the heat pump was sized to work to 14F. They make them that will wor…

I'm amazed at these prices, I replaced a propane tank + furnace with horizontal loop ground source for $40k Canadian (+ tax, but government rebate matched that). It's almost paid for itself in about 6 years, I gave more detailed numbers in another reply.

Your setup sounds great, but depending on location in Canada, gas can be much cheaper than propane. I just priced running a gas line for my BBQ, and I'd break even on a $500 install cost after about 40 20lb propane tank fills.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#465

Post by brianwawok » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

drob518 wrote: post #450

danans wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to a conventional A/C compressor (which they replace), heat pump compressors are much smaller, quieter, and less ugly. As for the indoor units, they can either be the "ugly" ones (the indoor head units visible on the wall), recessed "cassettes", or they can use traditional A/C air handlers in a utility room to distribute conditioned air via existing duct-runs and registers. There are also companies like Quil…

I was curious about sound for both the indoor and outdoor pieces. The outside condenser for my current AC is very loud. Are the heat pump units quieter, and if so, why?

I cannot hear my outdoor unit from 4 feet away. It’s just an engineering choice. Use a $2 bearing or a 2 cent one?

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#466

Post by mothballed » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

jabart wrote: post #456

orwin wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you do the installation yourself? In my country i have to make a HVAC technician come to check the installation and sign a paper before i can start mine (200€ for a 15 minutes job, but it's less than the 2-4k it would cost to not do it myself) [edit] i say that because my hardware is 2.5k euros, so ~3k¯dollars, so we probably have the same high end stuff, and i guarantee you it's not hard to install, and it can b…

Newer units (not all) in the US come pre-charged up to a certain size of lineset. Manufacturers can sell you a whole unit with a charge. The rest is easy to source locally though I haven't tried to get nitrogen myself. Of course you have exactly one chance with your install this way until you have to call someone.

nitrogen is available at any welding supply store. The container and pressure regulator is like $200 though.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#467

Post by Shog9 » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

drob518 wrote: post #450

danans wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to a conventional A/C compressor (which they replace), heat pump compressors are much smaller, quieter, and less ugly. As for the indoor units, they can either be the "ugly" ones (the indoor head units visible on the wall), recessed "cassettes", or they can use traditional A/C air handlers in a utility room to distribute conditioned air via existing duct-runs and registers. There are also companies like Quil…

I was curious about sound for both the indoor and outdoor pieces. The outside condenser for my current AC is very loud. Are the heat pump units quieter, and if so, why?

Better variable frequency drives for both fans and compressor is a big part of it (see other comments about being less prone to short-cycling).

This isn't exactly new or unique to heat pumps (and some older heat pumps lack both), but as the technology has gotten cheaper and more reliable, coupled with the drive for better efficiency, it has become commonplace.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#468

Post by caminante » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #454

caminante wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL. Can you please share your definition of "whataboutism?" And explain how bringing up a single alternative (plus flaw) is addressing the critique and NOT changing the subject?

"Whataboutism", like "dog whistle", is a name for an imaginary discussion pattern that doesn't occur in real life, but is super easy to point out in most conversations, allowing one to cry foul and "win" the argument (or whole discussion) through violence instead of reason. This is pretty much the same as accusing a colleague of insulting you through PR they asked you to review, because there's an added line that say…

? [0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#469

Post by Marsymars » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #128

> what it’s going to take, from the human side of the equation, to make heat pumps the obvious, accessible, and default choice for millions of American homes. Well, this has already happened; living in a third-world American country, I've been heating my houses in winter with heat pumps every winter for many years (even though they iced up occasionally) and most air conditioners here are already heat pumps. Frio/calo…

> But, installations strictly for heating are probably never going to happen en masse. In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45698730 I analyze the costs. It turns out that heat pumps cost around 39¢ per peak watt they save, while low-cost solar panels cost 6.5¢ per peak watt they produce, so it's almost always cheaper to install enough solar panels to heat your house resistively. And that gap is going to continue widening for the foreseeable future.

My counter-scenario: My utility provider wants ~$40k to upgrade my home service to 200 amp, so the up-front cost of electric resistive heat would include that.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#470

Post by Marsymars » Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #71

Nearly 2 years ago, we had a small tornado come through, taking out our electricity for a week. During that time, it was snowy and the outdoor temperature was well below freezing (it reached about -10°C (12°F) at night). Keeping my family warm was a real struggle that week. The next spring, I went to Costco and bought a big tri-power generator and wired up a generator interlock on the electric panel. Now if we lose p…

The math on natural gas generators gets weird in places with cheap gas and expensive electricity, to the point where it can sometimes be cheaper to generate your own electricity from natural gas than to purchase from the grid.