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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

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Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#461

Post by saalweachter »

virtualritz wrote: post #399
aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

It's not the only reason, but in general in American history, "why is this weird thing this weird way?" is usually answered in part by "racism".

Avoiding public transit has historically been one way affluent white people avoided contact with poor people in general and black people specifically; underfunding or shutting down public transit in turn disproportionately hurts those populations.

Again, not the only explanation, but it's the simplest for a number of things.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#462

Post by ToucanLoucan »

jfim wrote: post #431
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

Part of the reason is that public transit for whatever reason appears to be unusually sketchy in many places in the US. For example, a few years ago, there was an incident with a man with two chainsaws threatening passengers [1] in the local transit system. In contrast, the transit systems I've seen in Europe and Asia appear well maintained, clean, and relatively safe. Biking is also safer in European cities that hav…

> Part of the reason is that public transit for whatever reason appears to be unusually sketchy in many places in the US.

Police and policing culture is heavily biased in the United States to the protection of property and the interests of capital, so it makes complete sense they wouldn't give a fuck about keeping public transit or spaces that aren't highly trafficked by the wealthy very well protected. Maybe a little tinfoil hat, but if you take that into account, I think it makes perfect sense.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#463

Post by b112 »

virtualritz wrote: post #399
aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

Yet your example purposefully sabotages cars by blocking streets to cars, and by not having city planners enforce enough parking spots for cars.

The system can prioritize either method of travel. It's no surprise that when this happens, one is faster than the other.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#464

Post by dangus »

dangus wrote: post #319
TylerE wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 26% of NYC due way stations have elevators.

This statistic looks really bad but a large number of subway stations are very close to each other, so it's rather easy to find an alternative accessible station somewhat nearby in many cases (especially in Manhattan) When the MTA prioritizes accessibility projects they take this into consideration and prioritize stations that have few options for alternatives. I will also point out that buses exist in NYC.

I also think it’s funny that people bring up NYC transit accessibility statistics when it’s not like the cars that people are forced to drive in just about every other city are accessible.

And of course there are different types of disability. You’d much rather be blind in NYC than blind in Omaha Nebraska in regard to your ability to get around.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#465

Post by w0m »

aziaziazi wrote: post #322
vidarh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing the point, which was that you're not going to convince people like me who ignore the vegan options just by having them be cheaper than meat, because I won't look. The only thing that would make me look at the vegan options would be if I felt I couldn't afford the meat options.

1. I’m not trying to convince you or anyone. In fact people always convince themselves , you only can share facts and opinion with them and they do their own arbitrage. Eat what you want to eat. 2. Speak for yourself. "People like me" doesn’t mean much, you may share some thought but everyone have a whole life of different experiences. Your argument on price and affordability makes sense may be shared by others but i…

> Genuine questions : why do you eat meat ?

I know not aimed at me, but honest answer: because I grew up eating it. Environmental/moral concerns have never been a prime concern as I don't consider them problems reasonably solved or helped by individual choices. Having sat don for a lengthy talk with an adherent, veganism itself comes off as smug self righteous delusion to me.

But that's my opinion, and opinions are much like assholes in general cleanliness and presentability in public.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#466

Post by hombre_fatal »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #256
efavdb wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I like driving my kid to school in my car. YMMV

I hated feeling completely stranded as a kid since nothing was accessible by foot or PT. Even today visiting my parents outer suburban house feels like being dumped on an island. My social life as a teenager was incredibly limited by the fact that I couldn't just jump on a bus and meet up with everyone else who lived in areas with PT coverage.

Yeah, most of us have no idea how bad we have it until we live somewhere where it's different.

The idea of walking/biking to school or walking with your friends to the cafe after school to hang out, or bumping into friends while walking home from a bar is so alien to Americans that it's not even on their radar.

We get a glimpse of it when we go on vacation to Prague or Disneyland or something. But when we return home, we immediately relegate the experience to something exotic you do on vacation rather than something you can actually have.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#467

Post by woooooo »

virtualritz wrote: post #399
aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

Ring lines around which center? Midtown? It's already a criss-cross of lines, NQR does a semicircle..

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#468

Post by sorcerer-mar »

bunderbunder wrote: post #46
sc68cal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already had A/B testing of congestion pricing. The A test was without congestion pricing in NYC, and has been tested for decades.

That's not an A/B test because it has no way of controlling for broader economic trends over time. How do you figure out if what you're seeing is because of that one thing that changed, or the enormous list of other things that also changed around the same time? A more valid design would be randomly assigning some cities to institute congestion pricing, and other cities to not have it. Obviously not feasible in pract…

Everyone knows how you can conduct good experiments in a land of frictionless spherical cows.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#469

Post by Tallain »

h2zizzle wrote: post #455
jfim wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason is that public transit for whatever reason appears to be unusually sketchy in many places in the US. For example, a few years ago, there was an incident with a man with two chainsaws threatening passengers [1] in the local transit system. In contrast, the transit systems I've seen in Europe and Asia appear well maintained, clean, and relatively safe. Biking is also safer in European cities that hav…

? Japanese subways were infamously the site of a nerve gas attack in the 90s. 33 people were killed in mass knife attacks in Kunming, China in 2014. France has had a handful of subway and train attacks. However, the point is that these incidents, along with the BART one, are unusual. Avoiding public transit because of them would be like avoiding flying because of air accidents or avoiding going to a theater or musica…

BART crime is up over the past decade. People don't avoid BART because of that headline with the chainsaw man. They avoid it because of everyday crime and violence.

I'm sure it's similar for many other metro transport options in the USA. California in particular has a rough go for many reasons.

It doesn't even have to be something bad or happen to you. One "my buddy had his bike stolen off the light rail" and several people will be turned off of ever trying to use it.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#470

Post by hombre_fatal »

jampekka wrote: post #410
an_account wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can afford a car in NYC then you can afford the toll. Cars are very expensive to own.

If you could afford the car only just, it's quite obvious you can't afford it if you now have to pay congestion charges on top.

Technically true, but it's a megaluxury that comes at a high cost, especially to everyone else.
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