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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#461

Post by eastbound »

8338550bff96 wrote: post #450
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

At what point is this just extortionary cash grab from U.S. tech companies? Want to fund some expensive grand program? Find a reason to fine U.S. companies.

Why not. Their hegemony is used as a weapon of war, since 1998 when Microsoft was condemned-but-not-penalized for its monopoly. Make it costly for USA to spy & conquer.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#463

Post by RobotToaster »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

It's also worth noting that one of the ways the five eyes get around domestic spying laws is to spy on each other's citizens. So the CIA spy on British citizens the UK government want to spy on, and GCHQ spy on American citizens the US government want to spy on. So this would indirectly allow the US government to spy on US citizens (even more than it already does, anyway)

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#464

Post by [deleted] »

chongli wrote: post #370
gnfargbl wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following the stories relatively closely, since I live here and have an interest in these things. I'm not aware of any arrests for "disagreeing with the extreme left", which is what I'm specifically asking about. It's important not to distort facts to fit a narrative. As you probably know, we don't have first amendment protection in the UK.

We're talking about US citizens -- who are protected by the first amendment -- who have never set foot on UK soil being threatened with extradition to the UK! This is not justifiable.

[deleted]

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#465

Post by hedora »

bilekas wrote: post #109
cmsj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple still has legal entities in the UK. Pulling out cloud services would be insufficient to prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

The US CLOUD act says something similar to your straw man (though it doesn't ban E2E encryption like the UK is attempting to do):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

Note that it the bar is having the ability to access the server, so this law is completely incompatible with most GPDR solutions: It's illegal to store European user data and then refuse to hand it over to US law enforcement, regardless of whether the data is stored in Europe or the request breaks European law.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#466

Post by lern_too_spel »

dylan604 wrote: post #431
scarface_74 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think out of the thousands of Apple employees that someone would leak it?

Not necessarily. There's a lot of people absolutely unwilling to risk loosing their salary and career. If you are doxxed as the leaker, what other company would hire you? I'm not even considering if there could be criminal charges involved as well. Snowden left an example of what kind of lifestyle is possible after leaking, and I doubt snowflakes at FAANG would be down for that. Or how about other examples of leakers…

Snowden chose that lifestyle. If he had stayed in the US, he would be out of prison already, just without a security clearance. The longest sentence anyone ever got for leaking government information to the media is 63 months, with a release after 50 months on good behavior.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#467

Post by tim333 »

harvey9 wrote: post #159
Havoc wrote: post #113

UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US. Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.

Ignorant rather than old. Alan Turing was born more than 100 years ago.

I looked them up and they are not terribly old but did Ancient and Modern History at Oxford - the guy who did the law and philosophy, politics and economics at Oxford - Home Secretary. I doubt they are very up on tech.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#468

Post by Paradigma11 »

cbsks wrote: post #453
Paradigma11 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that is actually true in those cases. Relations with China were pretty cosy till they did a 180 around the second Bush administration and started all that Wolf Warrior diplomacy, 9 dotted line stuff, Hongkong crackdowns....... Regarding Russia, nobody really cared at all till it was absolutely impossible to ignore. Putin seems to think that he needs the west as an enemy to bolster his standing and power.…

It’s a reference to 1984 by George Orwell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_geography_of_Ninet...

I know. I just dont think it fits particularly well with those cases.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#469

Post by [deleted] »

wtcactus wrote: post #456
gnfargbl wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you offer an example of someone being jailed for "disagreeing with the extreme left on social media," or is this an alternative fact that you've acquired via osmosis? I am aware of people being jailed in the UK for making terrorist threats on social media, and arguably those prosecutions were inappropriate, but that doesn't appear to be what you're claiming.

There are several examples, but connected, just this week, the British police not only arrested a men for burning the Koran, but they also doxed his full name and hometown. This, right after Islamists killed people in Europe for burning the Koran. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/04/manchester-polic...

[deleted]

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#470

Post by reaperducer »

altairprime wrote: post #452
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

The UK government can’t put Apple out of business; Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK. The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds.

The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds.

Three weeks ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then Tim Cook wrote a check for $1,000,000.00 to help pay for Donald Trump's inauguration party.†

In spite of what they led us to believe over the last couple of decades, Tim Cook and Apple are no different than any of the other tech companies genuflecting before the new emperor, whose stated goals are the opposite of the "mission, vision and values" lies we were fed by the tech industry.

† In case you (or anyone else) missed it: https://variety.com/2025/biz/news/apple-ceo-tim-cook-donates...

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