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ChatGPT Search

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Re: ChatGPT Search

#461

Post by r00fus »

freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

> In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever.

I mean, Star Trek is a fictional science-fantasy world so it's natural that tech works without a hitch. It's not clear how we get there from where we are now.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#462

Post by janalsncm »

umvi wrote: post #451
whizzter wrote: post #300

This is probably Google's Altavista moment, by making their results crappier by the year in search of Ad dollars everyone has felt that there is a potential for search to be better and once that becomes available they'll be in a continious game of catch-up. Yes, Google has their own AI divisions, tons of money and SEO is to blame for part of their crappiness. But they've also _explicitly_ focused on ad-dollars over a…

At some point it seems like Google switch to ML-based search instead of index based search. You can search for very specific combinations of lyrics and scenes: "eyes on me pineapple bucket of water house of cards chess time loop" and you won't surface a link to the music video featuring all of those things ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlzgDVLtU6g ), you'll just get really generic results of the average of your q…

I think this is a separate issue although it also exists.

What the parent is referring to is favoring annoying ad-filled garbage over an equally relevant but straightforward result.

The hidden variable is that ad-riddled spam sites also invest in SEO, which is why they rank higher. I am not aware of any evidence that Google is using number of Google ads as a ranking factor directly. But I would push back and say that “SEO” is something Google should be doing, not websites, and a properly optimized search engine would be penalizing obvious garbage.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#463

Post by rsync »

I maintain a little page titled "Misc. information I want search engines to find"[1] and so I asked ChatGPT things that are answered there:

"How much tea tree oil by volume is in Dr Bronners tea tree oil liquid soap?"

A. ... However, the exact volume or percentage of tea tree oil in the formulation is not publicly disclosed by the manufacturer.

(which is incorrect, as the manufacturer disclosed it to me and I published it on the web)

One conclusion is that the web indexing is relatively shallow.

However ...

"Where does the founder of rsync.net live?"

A. "John Kozubik, the founder and CEO of rsync.net, resides in the San Francisco Bay Area."

... and the source is kozubik.com ... which means they did index my page but only retain, or weight, some of it ?

Meanwhile ... ublock showing >3k denials during this five minute interaction. I guess we can conclude something about where they are directing their time and energy.

[1] https://www.kozubik.com/personal/misc.txt

Re: ChatGPT Search

#464

Post by rurban »

I just detected perplexity for a proper AI search yesterday. My test question today was: Which cbmc solver is multi-threaded?

Perplexity gave me the correct and best answers, with links to the relevant arxiv papers.

The new ChatGPT search gave me only cadical as answer, plus 2 irrelevant wrong answers (not multi-threaded), but missed all other multi-threaded solvers. => It's crap.

Neither Google nor ddg gave me any relevant links. Couldn't try kagi, since my trial phase is over.

Looks like the fellow who was invited to the Google funeral was right. Google search is dead.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#465

Post by whiplash451 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #441
whiplash451 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, sama said at a Harvard event recently that he “despised” ads and would use them at a last resort. It came across as genuine and I have the intuition/hope that they might find an alternative.

Everyone despises ads until other revenue streams run dry

I know. I thought the same. Still, part of me wants to believe that something else will come.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#466

Post by pojzon »

freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

We will get there when ppl move past capitalism and socialism. Like an ant colony pushing into one direction. It will happen, but we need few more global dying events / resets. I believe human race can get there but not in current form and state of mind.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#467

Post by janalsncm »

rawgabbit wrote: post #415
whizzter wrote: post #300

This is probably Google's Altavista moment, by making their results crappier by the year in search of Ad dollars everyone has felt that there is a potential for search to be better and once that becomes available they'll be in a continious game of catch-up. Yes, Google has their own AI divisions, tons of money and SEO is to blame for part of their crappiness. But they've also _explicitly_ focused on ad-dollars over a…

For me the key difference between ChatGPT Search and Google is the feedback mechanism. With ChatGPT, I can give a thumbs up or thumbs down; this means that OpenAI will optimize for users thumbs up. With Google, the feedback is if I click on an Ad; this means that Google optimizes for clickbait.

I have no doubt that Google’s search team is optimizing for the best results. The problem is their ads team is optimizing for revenue. You can’t optimize for two things at the same time without compromising (the optimum is the Pareto frontier).

Re: ChatGPT Search

#468

Post by hidelooktropic »

thefourthchime wrote: post #307
whizzter wrote: post #300

This is probably Google's Altavista moment, by making their results crappier by the year in search of Ad dollars everyone has felt that there is a potential for search to be better and once that becomes available they'll be in a continious game of catch-up. Yes, Google has their own AI divisions, tons of money and SEO is to blame for part of their crappiness. But they've also _explicitly_ focused on ad-dollars over a…

Google's SEO almost killed the web, ChatGPT Search will finish the job.

How?

Re: ChatGPT Search

#469

Post by janalsncm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #308
whizzter wrote: post #300

This is probably Google's Altavista moment, by making their results crappier by the year in search of Ad dollars everyone has felt that there is a potential for search to be better and once that becomes available they'll be in a continious game of catch-up. Yes, Google has their own AI divisions, tons of money and SEO is to blame for part of their crappiness. But they've also _explicitly_ focused on ad-dollars over a…

Classic innovator’s dilemma. The politics of Google make launching a search competitor impossible.

Exactly. That’s why I never understood Gemini. It is in a zero-sum game with Search.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#470

Post by hidelooktropic »

unnouinceput wrote: post #140
Liquix wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the FAANG giants have been government assets for ~15+ years [0]. they don't have to turn a profit every quarter, innovate, or make their search any better because they no longer play by the rules a normal business does. they are a critical "too big to fail" component of the state's global surveillance system. [0] https://static1.makeuseofimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/upl...

OpenAI is Microsoft. Microsoft is a FAANG giant.

Microsoft is their leading investor. They don't technically own OpenAI.
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