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Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

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Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#461

Post by hmottestad »

janoc wrote: post #234
hmottestad wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway they revolutionised the car market. They were the very first electric car that people actually wanted to buy. If it hadn’t been for Tesla proving the market for electric cars, I don’t think any other brands would have bothered. So far in 2023 83% of all new cars are electric. In 2022 every fourth car sold (including petrol/diesel) was a Tesla. https://elbil.no/om-elbil/elbilstatistikk/ https://www.elbil24.n…

You forgot the very "unimportant" detail which was that electric cars in Norway were zero VAT and tax for electric cars until this year (normal VAT is 25%). Well, gee, no wonder that people were buying them left and right when the tax discount was about 16-20k NOK per car on average! And that is just buying the car - Norway subsidizes electric mobility in many other ways so even today registering a new electric is ch…

This just brought the price of electric cars in line with petrol cars of the same size.

When Tesla introduced the Model S there were no other electric sedans on the market.

Tesla introduced the Model X in 2015, it’s now 2023 and you still have to wait almost 2 years more if you want Volvo’s competitor to the Model X. Even with all the amazing subsidies Volvo is still a decade late to the party!

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#462

Post by hef19898 »

arpinum wrote: post #428
hef19898 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that is a defect, not all of which fail the inspection. Tesla Model 3s fail, among other things, tires, suspension and brakes, aka the stuff that holds a car on the road.

All of these fail an inspection. If you are at a mechanic they may fix these issues during a pre-inspection if they have parts available.

Expired First Aid kit? Common enough all inspection places I know sell them. Windshield cracks? There is hardly anythinh more obvious, and in Germany repaired / replaced for close to nothing. Unalligned headlights are a hard fail, true, as are worn / too old tires and brakes.

I got notices for worn wipers and too low wiper liquid, but never a hard fail. Unless there were other hard fails on the list, then they got added. That happened once so far, the most serious issue being the not properly working headlights (still have to track down the wiring issue). Never failed for tire inflators, never saw those being checked or asked for.

But again, Teslas Model 3's issues are mainly suspension, brakes and steering it seems. Together with constantly worn tires on one side only, I'd guess the whole suspension design, geometry and load distribution is bad by default. Most of the time this tire wear patterns are user errors, aka bad tuning attempts and tire choices, bad tire pressure...

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#463

Post by mattmaroon »

gonzo41 wrote: post #374
mattmaroon wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess because most of their competitors are 100 yrs old? Making cars is really, really hard. Tesla’s first mass produced car was only ten years ago, and their top two models 6 and 3 years ago. The average age of their entire fleet is in the low single digits. In the car world that’s just getting started.

Honestly, That's not good enough. In the car world you can recruit car engineers to fix simple car production problems. Objectively most of Tesla's issues are due to the poor fit and finish of the cabin and general fitment of things together. IF you ignore the whole electric engine and just treat it like and ice vehicle, Telsa should just be building on the knowledge of others and hiring Toyota engineers to help the…

He merely asked why it’s considered a startup. Startup companies take employees from established competitors all the time. Startups can also make products poorly too.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#464

Post by Geisterde »

lawn wrote: post #454
Geisterde wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats like saying shoes give you a false sense of security, perhaps, but its still your responsibility that you werent watching for a nail sticking up, its not nikes fault for making a good feeling shoe. User error.

That's not the same at all. No shoe is created to automatically walk and avoid sharp objects.

Yea neither are teslas, read the fine print.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#465

Post by mattmaroon »

Closi wrote: post #397
gonzo41 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, That's not good enough. In the car world you can recruit car engineers to fix simple car production problems. Objectively most of Tesla's issues are due to the poor fit and finish of the cabin and general fitment of things together. IF you ignore the whole electric engine and just treat it like and ice vehicle, Telsa should just be building on the knowledge of others and hiring Toyota engineers to help the…

Tesla produced the same number of cars in 2022 as they did in all years combined from 2012-2020. If you think it's easy to just stand up that level of production capacity, and that they are actually they are just ignoring simple production problems, then you are underestimating the challenge. Things like panel gaps are not necessarily easy fixes - i.e. what if you know the solution to a 1mm improvement, but can't eas…

People don’t realize that even corporations have budgets and have to choose what to invest in. It’s not as if TSLA is paying dividends. All of the money that comes in goes to somewhere.

They chose to invest in certain things (sales, manufacturing ramp up, pickup and semi development, charger network, driverless development etc.) and not in others (panel gaps, fit and finish, etc.)

Easy to decide you disagree but it is working for them.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#466

Post by hmottestad »

aeyes wrote: post #200
hmottestad wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway they revolutionised the car market. They were the very first electric car that people actually wanted to buy. If it hadn’t been for Tesla proving the market for electric cars, I don’t think any other brands would have bothered. So far in 2023 83% of all new cars are electric. In 2022 every fourth car sold (including petrol/diesel) was a Tesla. https://elbil.no/om-elbil/elbilstatistikk/ https://www.elbil24.n…

This is not true, the Leaf was selling in the thousands before Tesla entered the Norwegian market in mid 2013. The Leaf was the best selling car of all new cars in October 2013.

Might be true for October, but for the entire year of 2013 it was the third best selling car, behind two petrol cars.

https://bilmagasinet.no/bilaret-2013-ble-historisk-godt/

The Leafs were small and had a very short range. They were no replacement for petrol or diesel cars for families. Unlike Tesla S and X.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#467

Post by newaccount74 »

Closi wrote: post #397
gonzo41 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, That's not good enough. In the car world you can recruit car engineers to fix simple car production problems. Objectively most of Tesla's issues are due to the poor fit and finish of the cabin and general fitment of things together. IF you ignore the whole electric engine and just treat it like and ice vehicle, Telsa should just be building on the knowledge of others and hiring Toyota engineers to help the…

Tesla produced the same number of cars in 2022 as they did in all years combined from 2012-2020. If you think it's easy to just stand up that level of production capacity, and that they are actually they are just ignoring simple production problems, then you are underestimating the challenge. Things like panel gaps are not necessarily easy fixes - i.e. what if you know the solution to a 1mm improvement, but can't eas…

I don't think the TÜV in Germany cares about panel gaps.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#469

Post by specialist »

zie wrote: post #446
cedilla wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A weird accusation. It's not the 100 year old multinationals at the bottom of the reliability indexes. Tesla is also no longer innovating, they are far behind in almost every way. They lost their lead in battery tech, marketing and assistance features.

HUH? They are still innovating. For all of its other drama the Cybertruck has some amazing innovations. It's now a 48V system, uses an ethernet bus, uses un-treated stainless steel, etc. Again, I'm not remotely claiming the Cybertruck is a great vehicle or that it won't have any problems, but they definitely are still innovating on vehicles. Marketing? Tesla never really had a marketing department and now doesn't eve…

Correct.

Its steel body panels alone qualify as both disruptive market and technical innovation. There's exactly nothing else like it.

Did you see Munro's walking tour of the steel fab? The welding of the interiors to their respective body panels is awesome. Just one of dozens of process and technical innovation. Terrific stuff.

Acknowledging caveats about Musk, leadership, working conditions, FSD, yadda yadda aside:

Other manufacturers certainly have noted Cybertruck's reduced part count (BOM) and labor hours. They've gotta be concerned.

Like Apple with the iPhone, Tesla will continue to be more profitable than its competitors. Cheaper cost of capital, pour those profits back into R&D, fly wheel effect, etc.

Re: Breakdown of faults by car brand: Tesla has replaced Dacia at the bottom

#470

Post by jredwards »

seanieb wrote: post #30

Tesla Model 3, owner here. The list of reasons why I will never buy a Tesla again is too long, but they pretty much all boil down to cheap parts and poor build quality. That goes for their software also, absolute junk.

I also have a Model 3 and don't feel that way. The only issue I've ever had with it was a door sensor that went bad. Someone showed up at my house and replaced it in under 5 minutes at no cost.

All in all, not a terrible experience.

My last Nissan shut off (including the power steering) in the middle of the road while I was driving; I don't recall the exact problem but it was related to the motor. My BMW blew a headgasket. My Subaru was recalled for a faulty transmission. None of those flaws are even possible with an all electric drivetrain.

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