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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#461

Post by sebzim4500 »

speed_spread wrote: post #360
tw04 wrote: post #341

I view this as very RIM/Blackberry like, only Tesla has learned from history. Eventually the competitor charging networks were going to be "good enough" - Tesla had the option of working with Ford or GM, or letting them dump their combined resources into a competitor (and every other MFG). Sure in the short-term this will make them more vulnerable to competition, but if your only moat was the charging network you wer…

BES was possibly a more significant part of RIM's than the charger infrastructure is to Tesla. Opening the charger infrastructure is just them defining their moat, really. Tesla will still sell cars but more importantly they'll keep collecting usage data that they'll resell to the highest bidder.

When Tesla sells someone a car for $50k, what do you think is the value of the data on how often they charge it? $20? Surely it can never be a significant revenue stream.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#462

Post by vegardx »

claar wrote: post #445
vegardx wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the NA, but that is definitively not the case for most superchargers (or any other brand of fast chargers, for that matter) in Europe. Batteries are expensive so this is only done in very special cases. I know they've used battery banks at some of the electrical ferries in Norway, simply because the cost of running new high-voltage power lines was deemed more expensive and the schedule of the ferri…

Just a nit pick: 10A @ 240V isn't enough to charge my Tesla Model Y overnight from empty - but 30A @ 240V (7.2kW) is.

Most people don't drive 500km per day, the average is closer to 50 or so. So on average, you could easily top of your battery pack on 240V/10A circuit. That would be around 10kWh, which you'll do in 5 hours. Double the average and you'll still be topped up next morning.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#463

Post by samstave »

dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

#1 ; MAKE ALL PLUGINS A STANDARD. FULL FN STOP

#2 ; PROVIDE A RECEIPT OF WHERE THAT POWER CAME FROM. FULL FN STOP

Where is that energy produced, what are the inputs? How much FN fuel was consumed to deliver that energy to the energy-plant which fed the port to which my e-car hooked up to, WHO TH HECK IS CALCULATING THIS DATA?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#464

Post by bearjaws »

alistairSH wrote: post #135
londons_explore wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that part of the standard is that all vehicles shall have a charge plug on either front/right or back/left corners. Making the cable longer makes the experience worse for everyone - it makes the cable heavier (harder to use), more expensive (which will end up in power prices), easier to damage (as it is dragged across the floor or driven over), more electrical losses in the cable (again, higher prices). There…

I never understood why front-center didn't become the standard here. That would obviate more stand placement and cable length issues. The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) (Rear-center would work too)

Probably a few reasons:

1. Number of rear end and front end collisions and how expensive it would be to repair charge ports.

2. It would be ugly, people complain about the radar placement on some cars, imagine every car having both a radar and charge port right in the middle.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#465

Post by minhazm »

almost_usual wrote: post #250
minhazm wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. That's an odd take. Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world, and the second best selling vehicle in the US after the Ford F-150. It outsells the Corolla, Camry, Rav4, Civic, etc. Look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi sales, they've been plummeting because everyone is buying a Tesla instead. They're also the leading battery st…

> They're also the leading battery storage company and their battery storage business has been growing like crazy. Do you have a source on this? I assumed Tesla outsourced most of their batteries from CATL, Panasonic, and LG. https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/2023060514-catl-drops-despi... CATL seems to be ahead of everyone. https://thedriven.io/2023/04/21/worlds-largest-battery-maker...

I wasn't referring to the cells, but the products themselves. CATL produces cells, and yes Tesla uses cells from many of those companies. But a battery storage system is more than just the cells. I was specifically referring to Tesla's PowerWall & PowerPack/Megapack products, which has been growing at a fast rate. Just in the last ~3 weeks there were two several hundred million dollar battery storage projects announced that use Tesla Megapack[1][2].

In terms of cell technology, it's really hard to say whether those press releases announcing major break throughs actually matter or not. Tesla is also producing its own cells, but they'll happily buy whatever cells are available since at this point they're constrained by cells.

[1] https://electrek.co/2023/06/20/tesla-megapack-2xl-power-new-... [2] https://electrek.co/2023/05/31/tesla-power-massive-500-milli...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#467

Post by mattmaroon »

javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#468

Post by elihu »

isykt wrote: post #460

Is there any reason to buy a non-Tesla EV before 2025?

Sure; maybe you want a type of vehicle Tesla doesn't offer, or you want to buy from a vendor who's more open about making parts and service information available to users, or you want a more traditional car interface with normal switches and buttons rather than a big touch screen.

Your question is sort of like asking if there's any reason to buy a computer that isn't made by Apple. Of course there is, it just depends on what you're looking for.

I'd imagine a lot of people are also explicitly avoiding Tesla due to its association with its increasingly erratic owner.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#469

Post by mattmaroon »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #461
speed_spread wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BES was possibly a more significant part of RIM's than the charger infrastructure is to Tesla. Opening the charger infrastructure is just them defining their moat, really. Tesla will still sell cars but more importantly they'll keep collecting usage data that they'll resell to the highest bidder.

When Tesla sells someone a car for $50k, what do you think is the value of the data on how often they charge it? $20? Surely it can never be a significant revenue stream.

Well they’ll have data on non-Tesla users now too. The current market leader in the US has about 17% share, so even if Tesla eventually becomes the biggest auto maker, you’d still expect at least 75% of cars to not be made by them. They now have charging data on those 75%.

More profitable than the data though will be selling the charges. The rates they’re charging at Tesla Superchargers are far in excess of what they’re paying for the electricity.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#470

Post by chung8123 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #461
speed_spread wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BES was possibly a more significant part of RIM's than the charger infrastructure is to Tesla. Opening the charger infrastructure is just them defining their moat, really. Tesla will still sell cars but more importantly they'll keep collecting usage data that they'll resell to the highest bidder.

When Tesla sells someone a car for $50k, what do you think is the value of the data on how often they charge it? $20? Surely it can never be a significant revenue stream.

That is an interesting question. If Tesla has a network of cars collecting real world data that can be used to train ML I suspect it might be more than $20 per Tesla in the future (they can sell models to other manufacturers). Maybe not right now but more a future thing.
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