461–470 of 555 posts
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I'm curious to the story behind async being rushed out for Amazon
The Amazon bit is new, but it's a pervasive myth that Rust's async was rushed. Also, that Pin was a design mistake. However, this is very strongly refuted. See [edit: warning: abrasively worded post by withoutboats] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487
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Stable project structure is a requirement to survive as an enterprise language, which everyone tries to make it into. It can live with the forks, but only as a toy language.
Precisely. The naivety on display here about the realities of long term software development is absolutely astounding, especially for a project with such lofty goals. Keep your dirty laundry out of the public eye if you really care about Rust.
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This means something about Mozilla policies/politics is going wrong.
I thought Mozilla barely has anything to do with Rust anymore. I assume they're part of the foundation or something, but are they actually setting/imposing any policies for Rust anymore?
Unfortunately you can't have something be both a long-term fork and also accept contributions, so the crablang people need to decide and then publicize that decision.
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It’s evidence of division and strife. They have allowed the environment to get toxic. Groups that were planning on adopting Rust will now think twice, as it’s future now looks uncertain. All organizations that produce something valuable face this test, it’s the ones that don’t fracture that succeed.
This. When tech leaders look at Rust as a solution for legacy products and services - then see Crab grab - it makes them think the ecosystem isn't mature enough for their 25+yr old platform.
For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…
Agree on all points. Something needs to change in the Rust foundation fundamentally. But as far as forks go this one seems quite low effort. Does the tactic work if the other side knows what you’re doing? From Ashley Williams, former founding member of the Rust Foundation (I don’t support her pretentious tone here)[1]: > "I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers," said Williams. "They…
Acknowledging this historical fact has (for multiple people) been judged a rust CoC violation so please don't go asking about it if you still value being part of that community, for some reason.
And no, "kill all men" was not considered a CoC violation itself, because Williams is far enough up in the org chart that the CoC doesn't apply, as explained by the resigning moderation team back in 2019.
I don't see this as a real fork, the same way CentOS isn't (or wasn't) a real fork for RedHat, or Iceweasel wasn't a real fork of Firefox. This seems only meant to be work around the trademark. If all this does is to establish an other, non-trademark encumbered name you can use to refer to the language and the compiler than that could be good.
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This means something about Mozilla policies/politics is going wrong.
There's nothing wrong with Firefox policy that led to IceWeasel. Mozilla owns the Firefox Trademark. Someone wanted to avoid that so they created IceWeasel. This is working as intended. There's no controversy, there's no one saying "wow I can't believe Mozilla would own the Firefox trademark !", it's just... how someone wanted to play it. It's incredibly unlikely that this was necessary or actually achieved anything…
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>there's a whole history of Stallman intervention in the project and resulting idiotic architecture decisions behind why that's the case. Could you expand on this? I still see him in a somewhat positive light because whilst his aspergers makes him not an optimal face to an organization his dogmatism regarding free software and the FSF's efforts in court and elsewhere have proven largely a good thing imo and I don't r…
Stallman can be blamed for the rise of Clang, basically. He for instance prominently refused to have GCC dump the full AST because of concerns of what people might do with that which could infringe on software freedom: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00... And that sort of thing suddenly made the non-GPL competition relevant and better. Now LLVM isn't a tragedy by any means, it's an excellen…
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It’s evidence of division and strife. They have allowed the environment to get toxic. Groups that were planning on adopting Rust will now think twice, as it’s future now looks uncertain. All organizations that produce something valuable face this test, it’s the ones that don’t fracture that succeed.
This. When tech leaders look at Rust as a solution for legacy products and services - then see Crab grab - it makes them think the ecosystem isn't mature enough for their 25+yr old platform.