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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#431

Post by bluGill »

andsoitis wrote: post #366
nindalf wrote: post #192

This fork promises "All of the memory-safe features you love, now with 100% less bureaucracy!" Compelling, until you realise that all the commits are auto-merges of rust-lang/rust's main branch. Which means the same teams doing the same work, under a different name. Rust is experiencing growing pains because they're still figuring out a governance structure that works for everyone. They want to simultaneously keep th…

> they're still figuring out a governance structure that works for everyone If they are indeed trying to figure out a structure that works for everyone , I’m afraid they’re pursuing a dead-end. One should be OK, in principle, to not aim for pleasing everyone.

True, but you still need to figure out who you will please. Many of their directions are concerning to a lot of people. Even if the majority agrees with the decisions (which isn't clear), they can still be unhappy with the way the decision was made/announced.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#432

Post by bluGill »

mrits wrote: post #403
nindalf wrote: post #192

This fork promises "All of the memory-safe features you love, now with 100% less bureaucracy!" Compelling, until you realise that all the commits are auto-merges of rust-lang/rust's main branch. Which means the same teams doing the same work, under a different name. Rust is experiencing growing pains because they're still figuring out a governance structure that works for everyone. They want to simultaneously keep th…

I'm heavily invested into Rust and enjoy the language immensely. Bureaucracy and slow moving is something I'd prefer at this point. There are only a handful of things I actually want added to the language.

The advantage of Bureaucracy is it gives time to think. I've approved several pull requests in my life that looked good and only latter realized while it worked it wasn't how we should have done things. (sometimes it takes years to see this, but sometimes it is quicker)

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#433

Post by lr1970 »

jb3689 wrote: post #380
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. I see it as: there's a finite amount of people who choose to dedicate their unpaid free time contributing to making Rust better (working on fixing bugs, new features, etc.) This seems like fragmentation which basically will slow down progress. Now, obviously the people who choose to dedicate their free time to open source software are enti…

Not to downplay any of your points, but as a counterpoint, I'm not sure this was true for Vim/Neovim. Perhaps I'm only looking at short-term gains though and not long-term fragmentation

> Not to downplay any of your points, but as a counterpoint, I'm not sure this was true for Vim/Neovim.

On the contrary. Emergence on neovim had a positive impact on vim speed of development, and Bram's attitude to new features (vim terminal, async, etc) softened a lot. He has also become more open to contributions from others. Even though vim-9 and neovim are on divergent paths they are both better because of the competition.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#434

Post by golergka »

travisgriggs wrote: post #430

More of a Rust dabbler/observer at this point, but one thing I've never been a fan of is the actual name. It is neither pretentious or anti-pretentious. The forker missed an opportunity to at least improve that, instead choosing a name that probably mostly subliminally enforces their dissatisfaction with Rust governance itself. Might as well have called it SheldonsSpot or OffMyLawn. I would have riffed the rust thing…

Are least is not a very popular videogame.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#435

Post by detrites »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #429

Several paragraphs of backstory, and not a single word describing the thing itself. I won't care why I'm reading about this until I can learn what I'm reading about!

As someone also unfamiliar, this exchange seemed to summarise it, unless someone else can offer correction or additional context:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36128144

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#436

Post by caconym_ »

fooker wrote: post #406
ezekiel68 wrote: post #256

It's a whitelabel copy based on policy disagreements, not unlike the "Iceweasel" (now Debian Firefox-ESR)[0] fork of Firefox. Just dawned on me after I wrote the first sentence that both actions targeted Mozilla offspring. [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/IceWeasel_History

This means something about Mozilla policies/politics is going wrong.

Not really. At the scale of Rust and Firefox, some level of disagreement within and without the relevant political structure(s) is unavoidable.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#438

Post by orra »

pests wrote: post #386
noobdev9000 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust was always a corporation/FAANG language when you looked at contributors and sponsors, so it's probably not real reason, I mean it is clear async was rushed out for AWS/Amazon and everyone celebrated it nonetheless. People like to hide motives

I'm curious to the story behind async being rushed out for Amazon

The Amazon bit is new, but it's a pervasive myth that Rust's async was rushed. Also, that Pin was a design mistake.

However, this is very strongly refuted. See [edit: warning: abrasively worded post by withoutboats] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26410487

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#439

Post by mattkrause »

slashdev wrote: post #396
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. I see it as: there's a finite amount of people who choose to dedicate their unpaid free time contributing to making Rust better (working on fixing bugs, new features, etc.) This seems like fragmentation which basically will slow down progress. Now, obviously the people who choose to dedicate their free time to open source software are enti…

On the other hand it could become a place to test ideas and port the winners over to rust. It’s not necessarily negative.

Sorta like EGCS was for GCC?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#440

Post by ragnese »

fooker wrote: post #406
ezekiel68 wrote: post #256

It's a whitelabel copy based on policy disagreements, not unlike the "Iceweasel" (now Debian Firefox-ESR)[0] fork of Firefox. Just dawned on me after I wrote the first sentence that both actions targeted Mozilla offspring. [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/IceWeasel_History

This means something about Mozilla policies/politics is going wrong.

I thought Mozilla barely has anything to do with Rust anymore. I assume they're part of the foundation or something, but are they actually setting/imposing any policies for Rust anymore?
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