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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#461

Post by skinnymuch »

eethawkey wrote: post #340
peterashford wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a third party (New Zealander), I don't think that's correct. I think the US criticism of EU is much more often baseless compared to the reverse situation (as evidenced by the number of issues which are picked up by the residents of non aligned countries).

Also as a New Zealander - I think the opposite - EU criticism of the US really misses many points about the competitiveness of their society and burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies. I think it is really about people's personal politics - Kiwis generally are much more aligned (left) with EU socialism/interventionism and hence relate more and see US criticism as baseless. It's all a matter o…

America is an awful country and they have lead 50+ coups. Murdered many millions. Installed tons of fascists, right wingers, and dictators. How is that protecting the rest of the world’s democracies?

If you’re in NZ you don’t have to fall for American capitalist agitation propaganda. It’s obvious the US only cares about advancing capitalism and its own imperialist whims.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#462

Post by skinnymuch »

edgyquant wrote: post #378
IntelMiner wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies" As an Australian, that's a pretty glowing interpretation of the US intervening where they aren't wanted or needed Was the US protecting 'democracy' when they annexed Hawaii, or how they've treated Cuba? Or Vietnam or South America or Iraq or any litany of other countries Hell. They helped depose Gough Whitlam because he dared threaten to nationalize ou…

You’re completely disregarding that they’re talking about the US being the armed forces of all western democracies and strawmanning about 19th-early 20th century imperialism (which Western Europe took part in far more than the US did.)

The US helped bomb Yemen this decade. Drone strikes still happen in multiple countries if I’m not mistaken. America funds Israel now. That’s all happening now.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#463

Post by [deleted] »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #376
eethawkey wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also as a New Zealander - I think the opposite - EU criticism of the US really misses many points about the competitiveness of their society and burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies. I think it is really about people's personal politics - Kiwis generally are much more aligned (left) with EU socialism/interventionism and hence relate more and see US criticism as baseless. It's all a matter o…

As a USian, I think it is super important to question a super power that takes it upon themselves to protect the rest of the world's democracies--even if they have to force them into democracy first. The same way I think it is super important to challenge Russia's current defense against Ukrainian aggression.

[deleted]

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#464

Post by skinnymuch »

briantakita wrote: post #448
alright_scowl wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying I gave up freedoms to state/bureaucracy? Which freedoms did I give up, exactly?

Interesting that my anti-war reply gets flagged over here. Can't have anyone critical of wars allowed to speak out. Nor can certain extremist ideological movements with a history of mass destruction, whose current activities are well documented, be acknowledged. I believe that answers your question...

Are you advocating for some right wing libertarian stuff?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#465

Post by skinnymuch »

coutego wrote: post #418
wafngar wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK would do much better had they not chosen Brexit. Basically everyone here admits that (bank of England etc) apart from some zealot politicians. And the health system has collapsed. The problems are not solely caused by Brexit but it exacerbates nearly all of them.

Exactly. Brexit long term net effect could be a few points off their GDP. That's not the end of the world, but it's certainly significant and it will make British people a poorer, which of course has an impact on public services. Whether this is worth it's up to British people to assess. My personal suspiction is that UK citizens were mislead about the consequences of leaving but, hey, democracy is about taking decis…

Democracy is about informed voters. The voters were tricked by silly things like lying bus ads. Doesn’t look like a Democracy to me.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#466

Post by skinnymuch »

mardifoufs wrote: post #317
permo-w wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s strange. every EU-related thread I’ve ever seen has had highly ranked comments poo-pooing whatever it is they’re planning to do. what’s your position on the EU? perhaps I notice the negative comments more because I’m very pro-EU, and vv for you?

I think the EU is ultimately the best option for europeans.Though I also think that it will always be prone to making super weird or counterproductive decisions by design (steering a ship with 27 different rudders will always be hard). I guess I have a generally slightly negative opinion of Europe (or more accurately, of the portrayal of Europe I generally see online), having lived there for a little while. I guess i…

I am American and think it sucks. America is also closely aligned with capitalism which is praised far too much. Combine that with any American praise and America is warmly received here. The entire site is based around neoliberal capitalists. Of course it’s going to be slanted pro America in some sense and negatively EU and maybe Europe on the other hand.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#467

Post by skinnymuch »

jasmer wrote: post #402
mardifoufs wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit crazy to me since it seems like there is a constant, almost never ending praise for everything related to Europe here. But I totally get that it's probably a difference in what topic we browse and what comments we read, so your experience is just as valid. I guess it's just surprising to me!

I worked for the EU gov. and I believe that Europeans are more naive about the foundations of EU than Americans are about the US. And far more sensitive about it. All Americans are cynical about their own country and government. The EU is a wierd entity, and few Europeanns have a true understanding of the mechanisms of power, the horrible democracy deficit; a result of a kind of 'blind faith' in institutions, and a n…

Americans aren’t cynical. 95% can’t define an economic system outside capitalism or a stance outside liberalism of conservatism.

Americans don’t know anything about America. They love the Founding Fathers and founding of the country. There’s nothing critical to them. Holding the govt or corporations accountable is never done.

Americans can’t talk about great govt program because there’s so few of them. Of the Govt programs they do talk about, the major ones are: Defense, Social Security, Medicare. That covers most of the usefulness of the government. That’s unfortunately capitalism.

I’m first gen POC American, but I don’t like America. Anything Europe or EU is going to be better. Or Canada.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#468

Post by krapp »

skinnymuch wrote: post #465
coutego wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Brexit long term net effect could be a few points off their GDP. That's not the end of the world, but it's certainly significant and it will make British people a poorer, which of course has an impact on public services. Whether this is worth it's up to British people to assess. My personal suspiction is that UK citizens were mislead about the consequences of leaving but, hey, democracy is about taking decis…

Democracy is about informed voters. The voters were tricked by silly things like lying bus ads. Doesn’t look like a Democracy to me.

If your definition of Democracy requires no deception or falsehood in politics then there likely has never been a Democracy in human history. The voters never work with perfect knowledge, and the politicians always lie.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#469

Post by sebzim4500 »

t43562 wrote: post #451
sebzim4500 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's referring to the fact that SpaceX are trying to abide by weapons export restrictions, so they are trying to prevent Ukraine from using Starlink from drones etc.

That is a spin which leaves out the moralising I think. This is a newspaper quote: "A senior Ukrainian presidential aide has reacted with anger after Elon Musk’s SpaceX said it had taken steps to prevent its Starlink satellite communications service from controlling drones, which are critical to Kyiv’s forces in fighting off the Russian invasion." 'Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX’s chief operating officer, said at a conferen…

>Why would anyone build any reliance on a system which is controlled from afar and suddenly becomes unreliable when it's needed the most?

This would make sense if it was China or Russia proposing this, but for NATO countries I don't see the risk. The US would presumably be fine with Starlink being used to guide NATO weapons.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#470

Post by sebzim4500 »

uoaei wrote: post #339
sebzim4500 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because GPS has never been shut down, to my knowledge.

Can you be more specific on how exactly this one-dimensional evaluation of a resolved issue contributes to your argument?

Because who wants to rely on a navigation system which occasionally goes down for nearly a week?
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