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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#461

Post by trgn »

mellosouls wrote: post #409
narrowtux wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is talking about taking away cars from people who live outside of cities. Yet this argument always comes up when problems with cars in densely populated areas are discussed.

That's because the tone of "problems with cars in densely populated areas" and those discussing them tend to completely ignore the significant part of the population that the argument is redundant for.

They don't ignore that part of the population. It's just exhausting to always have to equivocate when it is the obvious.

Yes, obviously, cars are a necessity in more remote places. Nobody's taking away your cars.

Maybe this needs a shorthand. Just preface every discussion with "*not about you, fur trapper!"

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#462

Post by kensai »

mcv wrote: post #317
kensai wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you imply? That (inner) cities will be only for your carless people? Good for you that you tick the boxes and still not use the car. I know of people that cannot manage this. The inner cities are also places were the suburbs people come to work and play. So space in underground parkings or other accomodations is expected. Imagine if the sububs people decided to say to you (inner) city people that you are n…

Car-owners can still come there, just not in their car. Amsterdam has slowly tried to move cars out of the city center over the past couple decades. Residents can still get a parking permit, but parking space has been reduced to make more space for people, and visitors had better park their car at the edge of the city and take public transport into the city center. Or just come by train.

And famous mcv decided for the rest of us, right?

No, they are tax-payers, they should be allowed to come with whatever vehicle they want. I agree that cheap public transportation should be offered, but also parking spaces for those who cannot come with public transportation.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#463

Post by detourdog »

secretsatan wrote: post #284
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I haven't owned a car for at least 15 years since I moved to Switzerland, don't miss it at all. I do occasionally need a car, so I'm a member of a car sharing scheme, they always have cars nearby, I pay a low yearly feee and a low rate per time and kms used, easy to book with an app, probably cost me the same for a year as a parking space for a month. For an occasional weekend away I might get a car from a regular hi…

I have an 8-unit apartment building in small New England town. I'm seriously considering getting a car as a building amenity. The car would be reserved and shared amongst the tenants.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#464

Post by HPsquared »

throwaway71271 wrote: post #440
randcraw wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing your friends still chauffeur their kids around. If they stopped, I bet the kids would learn to drive, since their alternative to taking the wheel is to sit at home. Now that it's become clear that services like lyft/uber are unsustainable at their current prices, the days of cheap taxis are numbered. Soon, unless you live in an urban center (or university), the only choices will be: drive yourself or wal…

in the netherlands people just bike or take public transport, most of the time its faster than car (up to 12km or so bike is actually much faster) walk is actually fine as well

I don't understand how bike can be faster than car. Does it take a long time to get parked or something?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#465

Post by dsfyu404ed »

bootsmann wrote: post #369
dymk wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is little to no reason to strap myself with long term responsibilities equity, retirement

Stocks are better for that in every way. If you buy a house you are dependent on political will to arbitrarily keep house prices high while for stocks the political incentives for growth are guaranteed to go in your favour.

You don't need the value to remain in any one place. You just need your house to not tank relative to the rest of them so that you can leverage up when you get rich and develop a fetish for "good school district" and downsize when the next is empty.

It's a store of value, not an investment. The goal isn't to get rich. It's to not have to pay rent in retirement (yes, I know property taxes).

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#467

Post by vinyl7 »

Cars were cool back when they were simple machines that you could maintain yourself. Now it's full of electronics, cars are 10x as big as they used to be due to insane regulations, cars are slow and weak in order to maintain MPG regulations. People are falling out of love with cars because what made cars cool fun has been legislated away. Designs of cars have all become the same and lack any cool-ness. Cars are all white, gray, or black..no more bright reds or yellows. Now they're nothing more than boring gray boxes to haul a person down the road

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#468

Post by bluecalm »

davidMC1982 wrote: post #205
hgomersall wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point... If you reject car ownership and the associated commute etc, you structure your life around that. You get a job and a house that are compatible with that philosophy. As a couple, neither of you would have a job that requires you to commute such distances.

That only holds true when your basic needs to survive are met such that you're able to entertain a philosophy such as "reject car ownership". I suspect most people are going to abandon such a philosophy as soon as "putting food on the table" is no longer possible. Conflicting ideas such as these crop up all the time. For instance, "commuting in a car is dead time, at least I can read/work on the train". A reasonable…

It's true you often need a car but it shouldn't be the case. Cars are terribly inefficienct way to get around. They are more expensive and slower (once there are enough of them) than alternatives. The anti-car sentiment is about changing the infrastructure so the cheaper/greener and faster alternatives get a chance.

Public transport is one alternative but I think small personal transport devices are more promising.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#469

Post by noobermin »

trgn wrote: post #438
benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

No. Young people always have had no money. It's the nature of being young. Cars are really just trash technology that has made city life worse. Older generation have an emotional attachment to cars, and project a lot of virtuous attributes onto it (freedom, independence, wealth, ...). Younger generations just do that less. They accurately see what cars are. The young have that luxury. They're not at that age yet wher…

I feel like cars are only good for older people of a certain age, and as healthcare (for now) has gotten better for well-to-do people, they can continue on older than the greatest generation could. But, when they hit 80 or 90 or so, or they get disabled, the car centric cities will turn out to be very inhibiting for older folks, and many end up feeling isolated. It is also a major problem with car centric city planning that isn't as well discussed IMO.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#470

Post by tropicalbeach »

usrusr wrote: post #343
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I hate being around so many people packed in a train, airplane, bus.
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