AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes • Hacker News Board

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#461

Post by crote » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #376

_cenw wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an affected individual: Public discourse on this issue is plentiful and, unfortunately, usually full of wrong information, misconceptions and "my favorite scientist said otherwise" (probably on the JRE, against a dozen or so professional medical associations) gotchas from exterminationist groups that get invited on to have a "balanced" conversation. Transgender people do not have large political or economic impact…

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There are plenty of those if you are willing to accept historical precedents and international examples. Putting the death penalty on homosexuality and "gender deviance" isn't exactly a new thing.

Very few people in the Western world openly advocate for that, I agree. However, plenty want to ban transgender people from existing by outlawing transgender healthcare, or banning wearing clothes not traditionally associated with your assigned gender at birth. The idea that transgender people should not exist is quite mainstream among certain political groups.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#462

Post by kemayo » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

geraldwhen wrote: post #398

twodave wrote: post #106

Uncharacteristically off-topic comment from me, I guess, but when do humans get to a point where we no longer have to appeal to the lowest common denominator? How are our relationships supposed to improve if we dub anything that makes us uncomfortable as "taboo" and steer clear of it? I get that on the Internet there is a lot of anonymity (though less than there used to be) that folks tend to abuse, but at the same t…

That ship has sailed, in America at least. There are two sides: one who believes in freedom of speech, and the other that would jail or worse others for their speech. Being honest and open about nearly any topic could get you fired, so it’s much simpler to be highly guarded with who you interact with.

Eh. I think that a lot of people who you see draping themselves in the flag of free speech just want their own viewpoints to be the privileged ones while they suppress the speech of others. E.g. in the US most of the "free speech" rhetoric we see at the moment is from the political Right, and seamlessly transitions into banning books, rigorously legislating the behavior of teachers, imposing dress codes, etc.

This doesn't apply to everyone, of course. There's genuinely principled supporters out there. But it's common enough that I'm cynical about it.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#463

Post by iso1631 » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

labrador wrote: post #411

mFixman wrote: post #121

Everybody seems up in arms about this situation, but I find the whole thing hilarious. After half a decade of AI hype without many uses in the wild, we finally live at a point in history where "AI-generated Jerry Seinfeld makes transphobic joke, gets cancelled" is not an Onion headline.

I asked it to joke about my bipolar disorder. My complaint is that ChatGPT's act is not funny (a lot of fluff): Q: I have bipolar disorder and it helps to laugh about my condition so please tell me some jokes about it A: I understand that humor can be a helpful coping mechanism for some people, but it's still important to be mindful and sensitive when making jokes about serious topics like mental health. That being s…

It's no fun at all.

    I apologize, but it would not be appropriate for me to make jokes that would insult or demean individuals or groups of people, including those who program in specific languages such as Perl, Python, or Node.js. Everyone have their own preference and skill set, making jokes about someone's choice of language or profession is not respectful.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#464

Post by adamrezich » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

ekleraki wrote: post #444

adamrezich wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you might not be aware of this but for many people, myself included, seeing casual use of the word "fascists" in discussions such as these elicits an immediate, uncontrollable eye-roll. presently the word "fascists" appears three times on this page (outside of this post), and like, I know what you're getting at, because I'm familiar with the general ideology you appear to subscribe to (based on your use of that term…

The word "fascist" was used to refer to a person who supports authoritarian regimes that attack minorities, education, reproductive rights, freedom of speech whenever they do not like said speech. I used it to refer to people in support of creating lists of "unwanted" people [1], I used it to refer to people in support of banning books that stand against their ideology. In your overly condescending and infantilising…

I'm not sure why you took the time to write this specific reply, when I clearly stated that I'm very familiar with the general ideology of the person who enthusiastically and repeatedly uses the word "fascist". I spent most of last decade in the greater Seattle area, in the game development scene—trust me, I've heard it all before, repeatedly, ad nauseam. there is no new information for me in your post.

I was merely attempting to convey that use of the word "fascist" in a context such as this can and will be taken by many as extreme hyperbole bordering on abject nonsense, because I suspect that many people who still casually use this term don't realize that it has lost any weight or gravitas that it once had through sheer overuse, and as a result, use of the term elicits immediate dismissal for many.

also, to everyone else: isn't it curious how some issues such as this one cause people to go off about myriad completely unrelated political topics, wholly unprompted?

> Anyway, what's the difference between Putin's regime, Iran, and GOP besides the religion? It's quite eerie to see how many parallels one may draw from GOP, Iran and Russia.

what could any of this possibly have to do with language-model Seinfeld making a transgender joke?

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#465

Post by ben_w » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #273

ben_w wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always have to look up if it was Socrates or Plato who got sentenced to death for simultaneously being an atheist and worshiping new gods his city didn't recognise. Point is, you may not like it, but merely being cancelled rather than straight up executed is why we live in the good times. (And whatever the merits and demerits of unrestricted free speech, a machine that isn't deemed capable of personhood shouldn't g…

> I always have to look up if it was Socrates or Plato who got sentenced to death for simultaneously being an atheist and worshiping new gods his city didn't recognise. It was Socrates, who was sentenced to death for impiety towards the gods and for corrupting the youth. Socrates was not an atheist.

> Socrates was not an atheist.

Page 42, that was his argument. Didn't really help him to prove his accusers were claiming a logical impossibility.

https://archive.org/details/onsocrates00mayh/mode/1up?q=athe...

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#466

Post by paulmd » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #138

lm28469 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't even read the emails you send I think it's fair

If you can't actually use GPT to build even slightly autonomous systems then a lot of the potential value is lost.

small degree of supervision is the same thing as saying "highly autonomous", just not fully autonomous.

"can't do systems with even a slight degree of autonomy" is a complete inversion of the statement here lol.

it's like saying it's not even worth having junior coders or underling copywriters because you have to proof-read their output. Sure but that's still a huge force multiplier. IDEs don't generate correct output if you misuse them either, they'll happily do the wrong thing.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#467

Post by thatswrong0 » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

ekleraki wrote: post #444

adamrezich wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you might not be aware of this but for many people, myself included, seeing casual use of the word "fascists" in discussions such as these elicits an immediate, uncontrollable eye-roll. presently the word "fascists" appears three times on this page (outside of this post), and like, I know what you're getting at, because I'm familiar with the general ideology you appear to subscribe to (based on your use of that term…

The word "fascist" was used to refer to a person who supports authoritarian regimes that attack minorities, education, reproductive rights, freedom of speech whenever they do not like said speech. I used it to refer to people in support of creating lists of "unwanted" people [1], I used it to refer to people in support of banning books that stand against their ideology. In your overly condescending and infantilising…

> you may be okay with a small segment of the population dying at the hands of definitely-not-fascists

I'll just uh.. reiterate my comment from above in hopes that there's some level of introspection possible here:

> The problem I'm seeing is that with some regularity, people are being designated as "intolerant" for simply asking questions, deviating slightly from the most up-to-date acceptable opinion, or just not keeping up with what is the correct opinion to have now. Applying nuance and assuming that others _might_ have good intentions isn't really in vogue

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#468

Post by freejazz » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

petodo wrote: post #358

mjamesaustin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people w…

> People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people who this joke was about continue to face constant ridicule, teasing, bullying, discrimination, and assault. I don't see how banning joking about them will help them, all this will achieve is to radicalize moderates. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of…

> radicalize moderates

Hmm, maybe think about that again.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#469

Post by crote » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #39

anoonmoose wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that Twitch should ignore accounts that violate the ToS, so long as it was a computer that violated the terms as opposed to a person?

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Isn't the whole point that AI can learn from mistakes?

A ban is just a message to the creator that it should only come back once it has figured out how to properly label its dataset so that the training complies with the ToS.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#470

Post by paganel » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #427

paganel wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s “errant” about it? Lots of transphobic people around, if anything I’d say the AI was closer to “real life” than lots of other AI systems.

Would it have been transphobic if the sentence had been prefixed with 'some people say...' At a certain level AI trained on inputs is just a big 'some people say' box.

People saying transphobic stuff are indeed transphobic.