Diversity, like wealth, is the result of a long running healthy society. Now instead, it is used as a measure, to bend the society. It is like turning the needle of a barometer by finger, and claiming the pressure is increasing.
Who cares about diversity?
461–470 of 536 posts
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#462So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc. But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the…
> But that will take decades. What do we do until then? We wait. I don't understand why people want these issues to be resolved here and now. Society and culture take decades to change, that's natural, and shortcuts—however tempting they might be—often come at a cost of something else. The conditions of these oppressed groups are not terribly bad, compared to what was going on with people in general throughout histor…
At least in the US, things don't tend to simply improve with time. It's a decades- or centuries-long fight, tooth and nail.
And things are much better now in terms of university diversity than they were even 30 years ago. But people have been fighting that fight this entire time.
This right here is the level of urgency that will reach its goal in 2-4 generations, if we're lucky.
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
Giving alms to the poor isn't "revenge-driven justice against the rich" - it's helping out people in need. Refusing to give alms to the poor "because it would discriminate against the rich" seems obviously fallacious to me. Surely one can by analogy reason that there are ways to support historically disadvantaged groups that aren't "perpetuating discrimination"?
> Refusing to give alms to the poor "because it would discriminate against the rich" seems obviously fallacious to me. In what way is this obviously fallacious? Alms have to come from somewhere, and if you take them from the rich then it is clearly discrimination against the rich. You could very well make the argument that this is justified, but fallacious it is not. That aside, it doesn't take a lot of scanning thro…
Funnily enough, the poor having some more money often makes the rich wealthier in absolute terms just not in relative terms. The poor having money juices the economy a lot more than the rich having yet more money. Similarly with more diversity everyone is better off.
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not getting that implication. They are saying that, on occasion, HR tries to shove a resume down his throat on the basis of race/sexuality when the applicant is lacking experience. That, in no way, leads me to extrapolate any kind of volume one way or another.
HR is literally not allowed, legally, to do that. Given that their entire existence is predicated on not getting the company sued I’m sure they’re well aware of that. So either OP should file a lawsuit or they’re imagining things.
What law would HR be violating by pushing certain resumes based on favored traits? IME this pretty common at all sorts of big companies.
People don't whistle-blow because its obvious you'll get buried if you do. Just ask James Damore.
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#465Some data to back any of these feelings up would be helpful. Academics are well aware of the difficulties associated with wokeism and are actively working on finding practical solutions. This post feels very 2018.
> Academics are well aware of the difficulties associated with wokeism and are actively working on finding practical solutions
That is very surprising to me. Can you share any examples of this happening?
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not what parent said. Do you want to live in a world where you could be the best basketball player in the world but you are don't get drafted because your eyes are blue? Some people don't get opportunities because of their skin color, their name or their religion. It's about becoming a NBA player if you can't play basketball
I never understand this argument. Wouldn't market forces, i.e. capitalism, gekko's greed-is-good argument fix this? If there were a group of basketball players with blue eyes (that were the best in the world), wouldn't someone see the huge money potential and create a team full of blue-eyes and win the title/cup/trophy?
Maybe in many decades after the anti-blue-eye bias had been successfully mitigated such a team would be formed. But until then, money and winning is not enough.
Bias is stronger than capitalism. Some people willingly give up money to not serve gay people, for example.
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with? As a white man who grew up with a single mother, this is exactly what affirmative action appears to be. Why? Because I already had a rough start, and saw opportunities broadcast and given out to others that I didn't qualify for simply because I wasn't non-white. I understand the on-paper intents and purposes…
I get your point and maybe the solution to fixing historic oppression against race is hard to get perfect. And your financial problem or lack of opportunity sucks but but isn’t it a little silly to say that a program is racist when it’s trying to help a certain race who was oppressed because of their skin color. If we stole 100 dollars from all black people and then 20 years later decided to give black people their m…
What do you tell an Indian or Lebanese immigrant who arrived 5 years ago and whose taxes are going to be increased to finance this?
Also, what if the benefit goes mostly to recent immigrants, not descendants of slaves? This is the case for affirmative action at elite schools:
> the majority of them -- perhaps as many as two-thirds -- were West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples. [1]
1: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/top-colleges-take-more...
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give an example on how a white male software developer would develop something differently than for example an asian woman, and how the cultural difference would translate into a different approach of writing code?
Man, how I wish all my problems were software problems
Ok, another problem a software engineer could encounter then?
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mainly agree with the OP. While they don't come out and say it, most on the DEI frontlines execute on the idea that the fix to the fact that "those people have been discriminated against, well, forever" is not to do away with discrimination completely, but rather to discriminate actively against races/genders/orientations that haven't been discriminated against in the same way. This strikes me as faulty thinking. R…
Giving alms to the poor isn't "revenge-driven justice against the rich" - it's helping out people in need. Refusing to give alms to the poor "because it would discriminate against the rich" seems obviously fallacious to me. Surely one can by analogy reason that there are ways to support historically disadvantaged groups that aren't "perpetuating discrimination"?
Hold on, that's a misquote. "revenge driven justice" does quote me. "Against the rich" doesn't; you added it. That's a pretty big leap away from my point. Do you believe that is "anybody who isn't rich?"
Re: Who cares about diversity?
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
(Speaking of the US) Our society has historically created great differences in opportunity. It is unarguable that white males have disproportionately benefited[1][2][3]. Affirmative action / Diversity Initiatives are a blunt instrument that attempts to address these historical inequities. If e.g., a student from a school in a poor area had the same quality of a K-12 education, did not have to worry about tuition (I.e…
Why not just put more money into schools and poorer areas?
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