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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#461

Post by P_I_Staker »

tharne wrote: post #321
P_I_Staker wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the grains thing was particularly stupid advice, recommendations haven’t changed as much as you’d think. The guidelines from reputable sources as far back as the 60s and 70s were fine. They didn’t understand how deadly refined carbs were, but recommended eating fruits, vegetables while limiting desserts and too much fatty meat; now you might be eating a bit too much carbs without understanding the risks, but yo…

> It’s always seemed silly that just the right amount of poison is good somehow Why is it silly? A lot of things are dose dependent. A small amount of tylenol makes you head feel better. A lot of tylenol kills you. Lifting weights is very good for your health, but if you overdo it, you can get seriously hurt. A stressful day here and there is harmless, but if you're under constant, chronic, stress, your health will d…

It’s not dose dependent though, it’s a dangerous poison that causes cancer. Your other examples are completely different. Tylenol is closest, but you’re really talking about overdose. Drinking a couple of glasses of wine a day isn’t an overdose.

Yes, there may be some nasty chronic effects of tylenol too, but I think you’re trying really hard to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#462

Post by lancesells »

BirAdam wrote: post #274
lancesells wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not refuting and generally agree with your sentiment here in harm reduction but I tried to see the collateral damage of drug raids vs drugs. In the US the CDC reported 100,000 overdoses from drugs in the 12 months preceding April 2021[1]. I can't find how many people die from drug raids specifically but this Al-Jazeera article shows 1,068 people being killed by the police a year after George Floyd died[2]. And fo…

An addict can become not an addict. A person killed by police cannot become anything other than a corpse. The severity of the harm has a temporal component due to time preference. EDIT: Also, dying of overdose is both a symptom of illegality and of the addiction. If a thing is outlawed the production isn’t exactly regular and therefore strength/purity of the substance varies.

Agreed. I'm in no way advocating people dying from any source. Drugs laws are ridiculous in so many ways. I was just trying to wrap my head around what the true numbers are as it helps put things into context.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#463

Post by mritchie712 »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #178

"I knew a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson

One of those things is not like the others.

I don't think sex is linked to many bad health outcomes.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#464

Post by slackfan »

malfist wrote: post #126
tasha0663 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advocacy tips at the end of the brief are shockingly anti-fun.

Speed limits are also anti-fun. Being anti-fun isn't an argument against regulation

Speed limits are primarily environmental regulation and have little to nothing to do with safety. By extention, they happen to be anti-fun.

The Autobahn is still not a 24/7 disaster zone of dead bodies and scrapped cars last time I checked.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#465

Post by Swenrekcah »

flippyhead wrote: post #447
Swenrekcah wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, doing things in moderation is way better than going to extremes. Drinking moderately as a culture may be correlated with eating moderately, exercising moderately, etc. In any case it has always seemed clear to me that studies showing beneficial effects of moderate alcohol consumption are heavily influenced by some combination of paying interest-groups and the researchers really wanting to justify a daily b…

I definitely see why you'd be suspicious. But on the other hand, the Okinawa Japanese are definitely one of those groups that DOES live really long and DOES drink moderately. I've traveled extremely widely, used to live in Japan, and (sure, anecdotally) it feels reasonable.

I don't doubt they live long and prosper, but attributing it to moderate alcohol consumption rather than anything else seems suspicious.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#466

Post by GuB-42 »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #332
colechristensen wrote: post #225

Question one: what is the world heart federation? I have never heard of it before today. Two: > The evidence is clear: any level of alcohol consumption can lead to loss of healthy life. The evidence is not clear. There are plenty of studies showing benefits. “Any level” “can” makes the statement technically true but meaningless, you could replace alcohol with anything and that would also be true. If you want to back…

Let me offer some food for thought: How many athletes report drinking a bit before competing? The answer is none because it negatively affects all physical ability. So would you say it’s likely that in aggregate drinking would be healthy? Edit: Wow, I guess people really don't like to think about this. To respond to both comments below, yes sure, sometimes it helps to relax just a bit and alcohol can help with that,…

At some point, alcohol was listed as a performance enhancing drug in archery because a moderate amount is supposed to steady the aim. It is still banned in many competitions for that reason, and not just because drunk shooting is a bad idea.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#467

Post by pnt12 »

chucksta wrote: post #442
zelphirkalt wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a weird comparison. No one is forcing you to drink alcohol, but you might be forced to drive to the office. One is avoidable, the other one is not. Or if you want to be even more precise: One is easily avoidable and the other might cost you your job.

No one is forcing you to drive to work either. Many people in don't even have a license, yet make it to work each day. You even said it, "might be forced" meaning there are possibilities in which you aren't.

If you live outside the city, you basically are. In my home town, transportation is limited, eg a bus in the morning and one in the afternoon, both which can be late, and the stops are kilometers apart and the sidewalks are shitty. So when I'm there, I take my car everywhere, as does everyone else.

But when I lived in a big city, the opposite happened: parking was expensive and the traffic sucked, so I always took the bus and subway.

Let's not make blank statements about transportation, as it differs so much from one place from another.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#468

Post by mint2 »

MAGZine wrote: post #329
mint2 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More apt analogy than one would think. lighter fluid and any product specifically labeled a fire starter do not really help if one has a basic understanding of fire except in extreme cases like for some reason the wood is soaking wet. And they have significant downsides in cost. lighter fluid is just gross. With even a modest understanding of how fire works all one needs is wood. Newspaper is good for charcoal. “Fire…

we're missing the point here, but newspaper isn't good for charcoal. You need sustained heat to activate charcoal--paper burns too quickly. The one time I tried to do this, I ended up slathering it in olive oil which would retard the flames a bit and drag the burn out. It's fine if you don't like to drink, nobody is saying you have to, but saying that it doesn't lubricate social situations is just naive. Is it a crut…

With a chimney you use olive oil on newspaper?! Anyway enough about fire starting. To be honest if you’re having fun with campfires like once in a blue moon and don’t really know what you’re doing, a fire starter can be an okay crutch, but if you want to go camping often to have fun it’s much easier and cheaper to just use the wood and maybe a bit of paper. But that’s enough hijacking this thread to fire starting.

People come reliant on alcohol and can’t do it without it. It becomes a prerequisite not an enhancer. That sounds more parasitic than anything else.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#469

Post by mywittyname »

tasha0663 wrote: post #217
mywittyname wrote: post #54

A fitbit helped me discover how terrible alcohol is for your heart. I could clearly see which days I would have a drink because my average resting heart rate would go from 63-65 to 77-80!

You easily could have done that just worrying about it.

Unlikely. A) I never worried about it, B) The effects last into my sleep.

The effect is also most pronounced in my sleep since my heart rate is usually quite consistent, it varies like 2 bpm most nights. But if I look at the last night I drank, my average heart rate is +10 from baseline and varied by 20 bpm during my sleep.

The data is crystal clear.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#470

Post by tsol »

tasha0663 wrote: post #217
mywittyname wrote: post #54

A fitbit helped me discover how terrible alcohol is for your heart. I could clearly see which days I would have a drink because my average resting heart rate would go from 63-65 to 77-80!

You easily could have done that just worrying about it.

That high an effect? I don't think so. I also monitor my heart rate and anxiety doesn't cause nearly as big a heart rate increase as alcohol.
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