Good. Here's hoping the US follows suit. Thankfully the Supreme Court has already settled the constitutionality issue: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/
Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
461–470 of 1001 posts
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#462I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…
I was also born in Soviet Russia.
It's hard to unlearn toxic ideas and relearn to trust in rational thinking, but it can be done. Don't let your upbringing fool you.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#463I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…
Not everybody who hasn’t taken the vaccine is an antivaxxer.
I think a distinction needs to be made between anti vaxxers and people who are just naive/“dumb”.
I have seen more of the later group. Which is why I’m surprised when someone here or in mainstream media says this has anything to do with a political side.
This distinction is useful IMO in creating sound policies.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.
not true - infection rate grows sigmoidal and not exponential. that's why at the moment you can observe a stabilization despite few changes in regulation as of now compared to the summer. infection spread saturates periodically after suceptible clusters are depleted. what would make sense is a steady and controlled Durchseuchung with specific protection of vulnerable people (like old and sick) - b/c the best immunity…
> the best immunity is gained by infection.
Source? I think there's plenty of peer-reviewed scientific articles claiming the opposite.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
This current wave moves from the east to the west. In fact, Germany has probably peaked, we have 4 days in a row of declining number of infections. France is at the beginning of the next wave, their number of today's infections is approaching German numbers. source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
Note that German infrastructure is at its limits in terms of how many tests can be done or whether the health office can track down the people a known covid case has been in contact with. Due to the sheer size of the wave, the percentage of unknown covid cases has increased. source (German): https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/rki-zahlen-corona-125.html But yes, there is a strong west/east and north/south gradient in te…
I'm not so sure how valid the argument about test capacity limits and underreporting is. While laboratories for PCR tests might be above capacity the 2G+ requirement (recovered or vaccinated AND tested) must have increased quick antigen tests dramatically, which also get registered and positive tests reported. E.g. to enter a public pool I had to get tested and they had a test tent right next to the entrance. The week before I could just enter with my vaccination certificate. Many people have to get tested more extensively now for work or travel. So I would be very surprised if the test coverage hasn't actually increased and declining numbers with more tests certainly looks like a good sign.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#466Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…
Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.
I spent over 2 weeks in a US hospital in 3 separate stays this fall, and while its not "complete failure", it is pretty close. ER overflowing, nurses with 2x the patient loads of 2019, etc.
It is not 100% clear to me if this was because of an excess of COVID patients draining nursing staff, or it was because of staff leaving because they did not want to deal with COVID paitents, vaccine/testing requirements, etc, and taking other jobs elsewhere (or just quitting). I suspect that it was a combination, and some of the problems could simply be solved by the hospital paying staff better.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#467As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…
Two major components for this winter wave:
1.) We just had our federal election so politicians were super cautious not to alienate anyone with though measures. Because we didn't have the transition of power to the new chancellor yet, this is still holding us back.
2.) If vaccination rates would just be another 5% higher (meaning 20% less unvaccinated people), the speed of the 4th wave would have been so much damper that we would have gotten through this winter without any hard restrictions (see France). I think there was a lot of wishful thinking involved that thought that those 5% would come around eventually.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#468I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…
I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…
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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#469Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…
No, it's not totalitarian. In Germany we have a constitution that protects all human's right equally. If there's good reasons why you can't receive a vaccination, I'm pretty sure nobody can force you. Not even the state. Go to your doctor to get an attest that exempts you from the mandatory vaccination. Nothing easier than that in Germany. And again: You are just speculating. Nobody knows if a vaccine mandate leaves…
> In Germany we have a constitution that protects all human's right equally.
If Germany's constitution allows vaccine mandates, then your insistence that it protects all human's rights will be of little comfort to the people who are forced to take the vaccination without their consent and in violation of their conscience.
At best you are saying "Having control over what medical treatments are done to you is not a human right", and at worst you are saying "Antivaxers aren't human". Either way, you are putting too much trust in a system that claims to protect human rights, and totalitarians generally manage to find a way to twist the law to justify what they are doing, whether the excuse is "military necessity", "medical necessity", or something else.