Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 1001 posts

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#461

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

albatross13 wrote: post #430
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

> Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days

I saw some conspiracy theory that said this weeks ago and just shook my head at how ridiculous that would be. At least it seemed like a conspiracy theory because my view of control group was apparently something else.

Emergency use authorization, for a vaccine that was never tested on humans, and both Pfizer and Moderna eliminated the control groups?

What the hell!? There must be… other or new control groups right? You can’t really have phase3 trials and reference nothing for control can you? What will they reference?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#463

Post by peakaboo »

chitowneats wrote: post #421
dfxm12 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What type of responses did you get? I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.). There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other…

I would have no problem with vaccine mandates if they were instead immunity mandates. Some people, like many in my family, spent a year and half exposing themselves to keep the electricity running, food packaged, delivered, fulfillment warehouses running, etc. Seems very strange that in the U.S. these people, most of whom are young (which means they are at lower risk from covid but higher risk from vax complications…

This thing was never about protecting people. Thats why it doesn't make sense to you. These health passes will later be called citizen passes or similar, and you won't be able to do any activity without them.

And if you are a difficult person with opinions about this, you will get flagged as a security risk and unable to use that citizen pass. People think I'm joking and it will never happen. But I believe that's exactly where we are heading.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#464

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

colinmorelli wrote: post #87
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #31

An interesting, short read is the difference between Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) and the full FDA approval[0]. Basically it is manufacturing, funding and red tape being the difference, nothing about safety or clinical trials differs. In software terms, EUA is parallel tracked sprints for clinical trials and manufacturing at same time vs. regular approval is Waterfall where manufacturing occurs after approval. […

This flow chart is not quite accurate, or at least is misleading. There is more to a distinction between EUA and full FDA approval than where manufacturing happens. The FDA's own website[0] says: > The EUA process is different than an FDA approval or clearance. Under an EUA, in an emergency, the FDA makes a product available to the public based on the best available evidence, without waiting for all the evidence that…

I'm sure there are more and very detailed differences, like if the evidence leads to an unsafe vaccine that there are different processes.

I think the major talking point is covered by this info, which is meant for the general public. I'll make an assumption that the general public is also less educated on average than the users on HN on average. A flowchart that would satisfy a bunch of nerdy engineers (us HN users) with all possible paths would confuse the heck out of everyone else.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#465

Post by allannienhuis »

mlang23 wrote: post #382
bananabiscuit wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the intent of people asking me why I don’t want to vaccinate is almost never to really understand my perspective and my reasons for not doing so. Instead the goal is usually to find the first statement I make that they feel they can easily attack (ignoring all other reasons I state), and then attack that statement and conclude that I am a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer.

I experience similar things. Frankly, I think the media has put so many weird labels on people who choose not to vaccinate that after the lockdowns, the vaxed people found a sort of sensation in talking to non-vaxed people. It felt like in a zoo. "So, you are not vaxed because you are afraid of the pain?" The actual reason for most, which is "I have decided to risk an infection to let my immune system do its job" is…

I'm honestly curious if you would apply this reason to other types of infections? or is it something about covid and the covid vaccine that has the risk/reward ratio tilted in favor of not vaccinating for it? When I do my own assessment, I look at the tremendous success of the vaccines (efficacy and low serious side-effect rate) and compare it to the risk and consequences of getting the disease, it seems a very easy call for me. So I'm really curious what you are evaluating differently - what am I missing?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#466

Post by criticaltinker »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #390
eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

"Clinical studies from Israel, the Cleveland Clinic, England and elsewhere have demonstrated beyond a doubt that natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 provides robust and durable protection against reinfection comparable to or better than that provided by the most effective vaccines." source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccine-mandate-natural-immunit... (Referenced studies are linked in the article). Why should people who…

To further support your argument, we are on the verge legal precedent that it is unconstitutional for public institutions (e.g. public universities) to mandate vaccination - and predicate employment on it - for people who already have antibodies acquired through natural infection [1].

> Prof. Zywicki’s immunologist, Dr. Hooman Noorchashm, has advised him that, based on his personal health and immunity status, it is medically unnecessary to get a Covid-19 vaccine — and that it violates medical ethics to order unnecessary procedures.

> the Policy is unmistakably coercive and cannot reasonably be considered anything other than an unlawful mandate. And even if the Policy is not deemed coercive, it still represents an unconstitutional condition being applied to Professor Zywicki’s constitutional rights to bodily integrity and informed medical choice, respectively.

> GMU’s Policy infringes upon Professor Zywicki’s rights under the Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28262820

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#467

Post by nyokodo »

kenjackson wrote: post #394
not2b wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone might be holding out for a reason they can't articulate or justify, so they give have an answer to your question (what would it take to change your mind?) but it might not be the true one or the sufficient one. I hope that this latest change sways some people but I don't think it will be a lot.

That works, but only if the reason is one they feel willing to give you. For example, I suspect a really simple answer for a lot of people could be "if it increases the chances of Trump being president in 2024". Or "if Covid killed my wife and some, but not all, of my kids".

> “if it increases the chances of Trump being president in 2024". Or "if Covid killed my wife and some, but not all, of my kids"

These are too sophisticated reasons. More realistic renditions might be “that other tribe gets vaccinated loudly therefore I won’t” and “I’m strong, only the weak get vaccinated.” Of course the same in-group dynamics etc motivate the vaccinated and we’d be lying to ourselves if we thought our actions are purely rational and charitable.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#468

Post by alostpuppy »

ruffrey wrote: post #459
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

Is $19 per dose expensive? Not knowing anything about pharma costs, it seems about what it'd expect. Especially compared to the economic savings.

Wow, I agree. That seems like a deal given all the special extra cold handling you have to do with it.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#469

Post by Grimm1 »

mlang23 wrote: post #242
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

Why does this technique change anything? You are still assuming the supposed superior position, since you imply that the stance of your discussion partner is wrong and needs to be changed. Dont you see how patronising this is?

Maybe they do have the superior position, just because you happen to hold a belief doesn't make it valid. That's the point of discussion in the first place, that is to understand.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#470

Post by thehappypm »

sib wrote: post #452
thehappypm wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this, in general. We shouldn't give up our freedoms. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Benjamin Franklin) We should be motivated by a desire to help one another, and resist when freedoms are removed. That being said, if businesses want to exercise their freedoms to make life more difficult for the unvaccinated, s…

I'm pretty sure that Old Ben understood that, in order to live in society, he had to give up his freedom to steal, rape, and murder.

Embarrassingly false equivalence.
Post reply on HN