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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#461

Post by TheFreim »

srj wrote: post #361
implying wrote: post #154

A new aspect of this is that because this is self-reported, and the end goal is to involve the criminal justice system, there is now (essentially) an API call that causes law enforcement to raid your home. What would be the result of 'curl'ing back a few random hashes as positives from the database? Do I expect to be handcuffed and searched until it's sorted out? What if my app decides to do this to users? A maliciou…

A report to the cybertips line does not equal a police raid. Unfortunately the scale of the problem and the pace of growth is such that only the worst of the worst content is likely to be prosecuted.

Yeah and sadly many of those who are consumers of illicit content get away with it because it's much more important to target the creators. The unfortunate reality of finite resources.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#462

Post by yyyk »

bayindirh wrote: post #447
yyyk wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all the HW items have equivalent or superiour replacements, and a fair amount are dependent on the Apple ecosystem. Without Apple's ecosystem it's a good system but overpriced, and that's before you run into Linux compatibility problems. For example, take the monitor - there are monitors with higher refresh rates or more resolution (Retina does 'only' 6K). Also, Mac OS colour processing has no good equivalent…

My comment was for laptops primarily. On the desktop side, I'd not buy an Apple branded system unless I need macOS specifically, but on the portable space, their systems are superior to most of the offerings. They're not EliteBook/Thinkpad tough, but they're more than enough unless you're going to handle it rough. I can calibrate a screen regardless of the OS I use with the help of a good calibration device, and havi…

I did think more about desktops, but I think same applies to laptops. I think that if you tilt the field by not allowing Mac OS (that's the context of the thread) the top PC laptops are better, since you lose many Apple advantages given by integration.

Worse, it would take some time for me to even trust Linux on M1 laptops to not fail exactly when I need it - that's the nature of reverse engineering. Since they don't have the specs, the only real test is lots of people running it for some time and reliability is more important to me than specs.

As for monitors, Apple's colour advantage is more than good calibration - the entire ecosystem can handle 10bit HDR. That's something AFAIK you won't get elsewhere.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#463

Post by majewsky »

deathhand wrote: post #421
gjulianm wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't like too much these smug takes > 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 99% of the population will delegate the decision of what code is allowed to run to someone, be it the manufacturer, the government, some guy on the Internet or whatever. For that 99% of the population,…

Not GP but... >99% of the population will delegate the decision of what code is allowed to run to someone, be it the manufacturer, the government, some guy on the Internet or whatever. For that 99% of the population, by the way, it's actually more beneficial to have restrictions on what software can be installed to avoid malware I do not agree with this. You are saying people are too stupid to make decisions and that…

> > 99% of the population will delegate the decision of what code is allowed to run to someone

> I do not agree with this. You are saying people are too stupid to make decisions and that is amoral in my opinion.

No, it's just saying that most people have other priorities. If you want to make the world a better place, educate more people so that their priorities change towards caring more about the software that runs on their devices, instead of attacking people with weird non-sequiturs.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#464

Post by majewsky »

fsflover wrote: post #436
gjulianm wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have interoperability between different networks, you can leave If all your friends are in a Mastodon instance and you think that instance is scanning your messages, you'll find it hard to leave because leaving the instance for another that doesn't share messages with that one means stopping communication with your friends. > You just switch to any other instance, because Mastodon doesn't prevent you from do…

> Controlled by another third party. Everything is controlled by a third party except self-hosting. Mastodon allows that too. Closed networks don't. > Yes, you can switch to ProtonMail or something more secure if you want So you answered your own question. > but that won't solve the problems of the 99% of people that will use general providers and won't even know they can't switch. My point is that they are able to s…

What does switching to ProtonMail help me when all my contacts are on GMail?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#465

Post by ajconway »

yyyk wrote: post #450
ajconway wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M1 is nearly a year old now, and the replacement (M1X, M2?) is rumored to be released in a couple of months. So far no other SoC has been able to come close to even the current-gen M1 in terms of performance + efficiency, with a remarkable x86 emulation on top. On the software side, Apple has the unique position to force every developer who cares about their user base to rebuild their stuff for a completely different…

The context of the thread is the idea of "avoiding Apple ecosystem while still buying M1" (See paulcarroty's post and my reply). If you install Linux, you don't get their Rosetta x86 emulation or any advantage from 'forcing developers', etc. etc.

I was more focused on the "equivalent or superiour replacement" part.

At this point in history, you can't avoid Apple's ecosystem if you want to use their ARM-based laptops/desktops unless it's a hobby of yours. And it's sad, because this is the best hardware I've ever owned.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#466

Post by eitland »

Ok. I can say this since I don't have anything to hide (edit: 1. that I am aware of and 2. yet).

I switched to the Apple ecosystem 2 years ago and have been extremely happy.

I couldn't see a single reason to switch back.

Today that reason came. What goes on on my phone is my business.

I guess fairphone next.

Again, I think have nothing to hide now so I can sat this loud and clear now. Given what recent elections have shown us we cannot know if I have something to hide in a few years (political, religious? Something else? Not that I plan to change but things have already changed extremely much since I was a kid 30 years ago.)

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#467

Post by zionic »

zepto wrote: post #21
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

No, your hashes are not uploaded to the cloud, yes, hashes are downloaded to your phone. Yes, it will be interesting to see if it gets spammed with false positives, although it seems as though that can easily be identified silently to the user.

Interesting? You think it will be interesting? False positives in this case cause swat teams to be sent to people’s houses.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#468

Post by fsflover »

majewsky wrote: post #464
fsflover wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Controlled by another third party. Everything is controlled by a third party except self-hosting. Mastodon allows that too. Closed networks don't. > Yes, you can switch to ProtonMail or something more secure if you want So you answered your own question. > but that won't solve the problems of the 99% of people that will use general providers and won't even know they can't switch. My point is that they are able to s…

What does switching to ProtonMail help me when all my contacts are on GMail?

It at least prevents Google from becoming 100% monopoly. It also allows you to interact with other ProtonMail users who value privacy.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#469

Post by gjulianm »

fsflover wrote: post #436
gjulianm wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have interoperability between different networks, you can leave If all your friends are in a Mastodon instance and you think that instance is scanning your messages, you'll find it hard to leave because leaving the instance for another that doesn't share messages with that one means stopping communication with your friends. > You just switch to any other instance, because Mastodon doesn't prevent you from do…

> Controlled by another third party. Everything is controlled by a third party except self-hosting. Mastodon allows that too. Closed networks don't. > Yes, you can switch to ProtonMail or something more secure if you want So you answered your own question. > but that won't solve the problems of the 99% of people that will use general providers and won't even know they can't switch. My point is that they are able to s…

> My point is that they are able to switch due to the openness of the platform.

And my point is that most won't, and the ones that do will still go to another platform that's controlled by another third party and they'll still need to rust that the platform is not doing things they don't like.

> Millions will immediately switch given a possibility.

Switch to where? To another company that could do weird things out of the eyes of the users? Do you think all of those millions are going to run their self-hosted Facebook?

My point is that privacy and security is not something that will be solved by federation or open source. For open source and federation to be useful in that regard, you need most people to actively research and check that the tools that they use are private and secure. If they don't, they're just trusting someone the same way they trust Facebook now. And most people (that includes most people here on HN) don't have both the time and knowledge to do those checks.

In other words, this is a collective issue. Trying to solve collective issues by individual choices is not the best path.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#470

Post by majewsky »

ben_w wrote: post #233
keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

(1) happened with the first multitasking OS, or possibly when CPUs got microcode; Android and iOS are big increases in freedom in comparison to the first phones . (2) and (3) are bad, but a tangential bad to this: it’s no good having an untainted chat layer if it’s running on an imperfect — anywhere from hostile to merely lowest-bidder solution — OS. (And most of the problems we find in software have been closer to t…

Re (1): That's technically true, but missing the point when viewed holistically. Those first feature phones were mostly just used to make quick calls to arrange an appointment or discuss one or two things. They were not a platform to mediate a majority chunk of our social lifes like today's phones are.
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