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Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

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Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#461

Post by user-the-name »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #441
user-the-name wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The command line is 100% superfluous. You can create and distribute a world-class iOS app without having to touch a command line even once. It is just not necessary. Nothing gets easier if you do. Because iOS has actual well-designed modern tooling.

iOS has one of the most pathetic development toolings in existence. Your statement truly shows how unaware you are of actually good toolings and solutions for software development, and, frankly, you should not say a single word more about software development experience, if only not to embarrass yourself even further.

Nonsense.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#462

Post by fxleach »

kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

I agree with you 100%, but also to be fair node, pip, and ruby can be incredibly frustrating to install in some scenarios.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#463

Post by tonyedgecombe »

user-the-name wrote: post #323
imtringued wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just start up Eclipse or Visual Studio (the original) and have the exact same experience. That's how I started with Java and zero Linux knowledge. What you are really complaining about is the fact that nobody is there to shout in your face that these options exist.

Can you do that for node.js, like the person in the linked article wants to use?

I haven't used it but https://glitch.com looks like it's what they want.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#464

Post by ativzzz »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #355
tommilukkarinen wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you put it this way, it makes perfect sense. My first computer C64 came with Basic pre-installed and that's how an eight year old learned to code. I guess the equivalent would be, that there would a button 'code' on the browser UI, and that would lead the user onwards.

Open the Developer Console. Get cracking.

Dev console is a debugger, not a code editor. It's useful for us to assist in developing web applications. It's far less useful for a non-engineer to tinker around with and make simple things.

You can't install npm packages. There's no simple UI to alter DOM like via drag and drop. Theres's no pre-built components (besides html) to easily create more advanced functionality. They have to write JS from scratch to add events. Managing more than 1 liners is a pain.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#465

Post by z3t4 »

chme wrote: post #367
user-the-name wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason. Programmers tend to get very proud of the completely pointless knowledge they have to acquire to use the pointlessly complicated tools they do, and they confuse that with being clever. It's not. It's really not. Nothing has to be this esoteric and annoying. We've just chosen to keep things like this because we th…

> The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason. I don't know of any developer that likes complexity for complexity sake for productive systems. I know there are some esoteric programming languages or obfuscation techniques that make simple things more complex, but they a either meant as a challenge for fun or efforts to protect IP. Do you have some examples…

I like to nominate frameworks for the complication category. People say they don't want to reinvent the wheel, but what they really mean is that they want to have the training wheel on.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#466

Post by robertlagrant »

user-the-name wrote: post #423
iam-TJ wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to put one of your comments in a different but maybe enlightening context: What I am saying is, as soon as someone new to gardening points out, entirely correctly, that the tools we use are weird, obscure and difficult to use for no apparent reason, gardeners will scream in rage that no, they are not, and by the way, you are stupid for saying it, you clearly have no idea what you are doing and you will never…

Now imagine that gardeners all use chainsaws. They are very proud of how skilled they are at their chainsaw usage. A new person comes in, and asks, why on earth do you all use chainsaws for this? Wouldn't it be easier to use more appropriate tools? And the gardeners immediately call him clueless, make fun of him for not being able to handle a chainsaw, and tell him he will never be a gardener if he can't even figure…

And they'd be right to, because actually the situation is inverted. Saying a useful tool is unnecessary and a symptom of the fact that all tools are broken is the sort of thing the person holding the chainsaw would say, not the people who understand why a whole range of tools exist.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#467

Post by TeMPOraL »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #443
lionkor wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programming COULD use a lot of simplification I disagree, actually. There are plenty of languages, and even visual programming (via flow-diagrams, like Unreal Engine's "Blueprint" and Blender's shader flow diagrams), for those who just want to play around. For people who want to write a quick and dirty script, languages like python make it very easy already (relative to what they actually do). > Programming COULD u…

And yet... when Flash provided a simple, easy, way for people to get into coding using a GUI, there was an explosion of creativity. Flash was terrible for all sorts of other reasons. But it did demonstrate that there is a class of incredibly creative people out there who can create amazing things, but not on the command line, and not using the tools currently available. How do we get them doing that again?

Shut down YouTube.

I'm serious. I don't think there can be another "explosion of creativity" of the (relative) magnitude of Flash, because people now express themselves by recording videos. It's both easier and more social than making interactive software, even with Flash.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#468

Post by robertlagrant »

user-the-name wrote: post #311
lionkor wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's enough credentials to make your criticisms worth thinking about. It's fascinating how, in a few years, I got so familiar with the commandline and never felt like it was too complicated (although I do almost everything through it), both at work and privately. Maybe, with a skillset like that, you could just make the things better that you dont like, instead of what looks like "just complaining".

I have in the past implemented my own shell to work around some of the limitations the usual one had. But today, I feel no real motivation to do so, because I know that if I tried to release this, the main response I would get would essentially be complaints that I shouldn't be changing things. I don't think any attempt to improve things would be accepted, because people refuse to believe there is anything wrong with…

How did you decide what program runs when a user types a command in a directory, without using the concept of a path?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#469

Post by radlad »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #443
lionkor wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programming COULD use a lot of simplification I disagree, actually. There are plenty of languages, and even visual programming (via flow-diagrams, like Unreal Engine's "Blueprint" and Blender's shader flow diagrams), for those who just want to play around. For people who want to write a quick and dirty script, languages like python make it very easy already (relative to what they actually do). > Programming COULD u…

And yet... when Flash provided a simple, easy, way for people to get into coding using a GUI, there was an explosion of creativity. Flash was terrible for all sorts of other reasons. But it did demonstrate that there is a class of incredibly creative people out there who can create amazing things, but not on the command line, and not using the tools currently available. How do we get them doing that again?

I'd love to see someone create a Flash-like IDE for Javascript. ActionScript 3 was originally based off of ECMAscript if I remember correctly, so they're quite similar. What's missing from the web scene is probably mostly an entity component system.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#470

Post by robertlagrant »

aspaceman wrote: post #256
user-the-name wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/usr/local/bin has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with programming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. It is completely superfluous knowledge. It is only required because, as the author correctly points out, the tools we use are BAD. They are absolutely fucking AWFUL. /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. It's still here because we refuse to fix these ridiculous things. Nobody sho…

Yeah but they're bad cause they have to be. I can't just wave my magic wand and eliminate Bash, and all $PATH nonsense. It existed before. So as a programmer, I expect you to know about it. There may be a day when the knowledge is obsolete. Where we can coordinate politically and socially enough to eliminate all usage of bash and $PATH. But those are social and political problems. As a programmer, I expect you to hav…

I haven't seen anyone mention why $PATH is nonsense, and what a better system would be.
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