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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#461
Innovation and creating new things, were ever just a side-effect, to a game of dragons entrenched in castles with treasure. Only if they could loose there treasures and castle, would the dragons, with the last gems buy a chance for a new treasure and castle.

The bigger the hoards and the bigger the castles, the lesser and lesser these chances get. Inside the castles, the same game, but with even less interest to become subversive.

The truth is, that tech never was about innovation. It was about beeing a aristocrat with other means. The rest is decoration, flowers, girls and pretty pearls.

Now stop moaning, and go back to hoard shoveling. Slaves you have been and slaves you always will be.

If your village is outside, mining gold, in the hope to be eaten by the dragon.

Or if you live inside a castle, doesent matter.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did throw everything away. I walked away from ~$10M, so this isn't the problem. To live in the present moment one has to unsee the cant. That's the difficult part. How to keep the mind from focusing on all the bullshit that it can't unsee. The burnout, the disillusionment, the politics, the faded friendships. That's what's hard.

I can relate to a lot of the things you've stated. I won't get into the specifics but I understand your experience of working at a tech giant. In my case, I decided to try to "play the game" for a while. After a few years, I realized clout, money, and the things it afforded were ultimately meaningless to me. Things like mentoring young engineers, hobbies, and organizing local student hackathons definitely took the ed…

How has turning to God changed your life? Did it change what you do or how you view the things you do? In other words, would your life look the same to an outside observer but there has been an internal shift in your mind?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#463
post #452

I'm having similar issues, and i think i found a way out: stop playing their game. Don't make enterprise software. Don't write unit tests. Don't accept pull requests. Simply write software for yourself and have fun doing it. Forget refactoring code into modules, just fucking code. Don't worry about deployment with k8s, just copy the Python script to your production folder and run it. Fuck all that shit about git bran…

> Don't make enterprise software. Don't write unit tests. Don't accept pull requests. Simply write software for yourself and have fun doing it. Forget refactoring code into modules, just fucking code I've found a really nice perspective on this recently: An app can be a home-cooked meal [1] It's okay to build things that aren't popular, that don't scale, or that aren't economically viable, for the delight of a few us…

OT: someone close to me never tastes the food they cook, I can't understand that. You don't know how long to cook it, or how to season it, or if the balance of sour/sweet/salt/umami/whatever is right at the point you can fix it ...

But that's more an analogue of "use your program before you release it".

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the GP's advice is meant for team projects. > "Don't make enterprise software. [...] Don't accept pull requests. Simply write software for yourself and have fun doing it."

Yeah, this isn't for work, this is meant to reignite your passion via personal programming.

but literally, why not do it for work?

burn down everything that's best practice, kiss, and build from scratch.

are modern engineers so retarded they need a gazillion lines of abstraction, bloat and opinions to not turn a team project into an unfrickable mess?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#465
I can't know where you're working or worked, but please don't think that this is every tech job in every company. There are plenty of smaller businesses doing great work where you get to have your say, good colleagues and some (at least) moderately interesting problems to work with.

My last 3 jobs (over 10 years) have all been with companies in the size of 30-50 people, with 20-50% being product/engineering, working on a SaaS product. My jobs have been nothing remotely like the Silicon Valley TV-series, so I'm quite surprised and appalled when people say how spot on (even if it's a mocking caricature) the show is. And your description of Dilbertesque politics fall very much in that same category.

Will smaller companies have the Big Engineering Problems that FAANG companies have? Of course not. But there's a huge middle ground in lots of different sectors. I'm working for a company that makes a platform for childcare centers, and we have a ton of challenges and opportunities - not what I'd expected 10 years ago. But the work is rewarding, even if I don't get to have a lot of challenges revolving super hard algorithms, huge data sets or whatever else might be all the rage. Most of our challenges is scaling on a budget, nurturing expertise in different areas in a 10-person team, translating feature requests between customer lingo to something we can implement, and many more similar not-wild-and-crazy tasks.

I do feel lucky, but I also do not feel like I was lucky and somehow found three magical unicorn companies to work for. And there's plenty of things that could be better, and I could make more money working at bigger companies but in my mind it's not worth the trade-off.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#466
post #450
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are the billions who are now alive thanks to modern agriculture and medicine. We are perhaps comparing the best of the past with the worst of the present, which may not be a fair comparison. Best is to collect the best of past and present to create the best future.

But it also matters how those billions live, and considering that the vast majority live in extreme poverty the picture becomes less rosy. Not to speak of the ecological disasters of climate change and pollution this is causing, which also has an impact on our well being. Modern agriculture and medicine have in a way made it possible for all those people to be alive at the same time. I agree with your last sentence s…

> the vast majority live in extreme poverty

For that matter, the whole point of the primitivist argument is that humans have been quite happy about living in extreme physical deprivation for most of their history. It's only when the social milieu is totally FUBAR that "poverty" as we know it becomes a cause of deep unhappiness and dysfunction. Also as the OP shows, people can also be quite unhappy with their life despite living in a highly developed country and enjoying quite a bit of material wealth.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#467
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this view. I agree with the original commentor's comment. I do this myself outside of work just to enjoy building something without the responsibility of having to maintain it with 20 other engineers for two more decades. However, even I can see that a team would get burnt if they built an enterprise software the way I code my personal email client. The problem here is that people forget that build…

ok, let's go back to 2014. I was working on a project, a web front end. The ticket was "change color of button". This sounded easy, modify the CSS. However, the CSS was generated. From YAML. The YAML was generated from JSON. the JSON was pulled from mongo. The Mongo was updated through a strictly validated XSLT that had an enumeration of colors. Those colors did not include the button color we needed. Don't worry! Th…

That sounds complicated. Though I'm not sure if this is a valid example to counter my view. I can't comment on the exact situation you went through. It could be that that complexity was a side effect of having to solve far more complex and frequent issues more easily as opposed to doing simpler and rarer things more easily (unless of course changing button colours is a frequent modification). It's also possible that the design was simply bad.

This doesn't mean that you were going to better off without git workflows, code reviews, tests. My experience has been the opposite. It's exactly where there's no good technical leads/technical discussions/code reviews I have seen this kind of mess. Each person goes on and do their own thing with no clear direction or architecture.

At the end of the day, for me, to stay sane in the face of this kind of nonsense(as in bad engineers - unfortunately there are those even at senior positions), so what if the button that could have taken a few minutes to change now takes 6 days if we are paid to do it? As a responsible engineer, you point out the issue perhaps with a proposal for improvement. If they listen, good. If they don't, fuck it. On the other hand, if all I end up doing is changing colors of buttons regularly, each taking a week, then for the sake of my career, just say no and move on - unless of course if the pay is so good that it makes sense to spend a couple years doing it - people have to do far more shitty jobs for less. And spend some of the free time to code like a cowboy :)

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, what the hell is that about? is it a form of abuse like trying to keep everyone under control? is it a form of psychological conditioning to remind you that you just a resource whose top priority is to be interrupted at any time so knowing that you don't really have any personal space sovereignty or privacy to your own thoughts or creativity but that you must answer and create only for the collective? I don'…

I can't say for certain, but I would guess it has something to do with the idea that all people must be available to each other at all times for the sake of raw productivity. So if there is a problem there is no time to wait. You just walk right up to the person you need to speak with and get it resolved then and there. Open offices facilitate that feeling of persistent accessibility and production. No closed doors t…

I understand but I think this is wrong. there's a benefit to asynchronous work and having multiple tasks in your queue that you're chipping away at its like the idea of task scheduling on a single processor I just think asynchronous is fundamentally more efficient for humans because they can maximize their productivity per task. And asynchronous "get back to you" allows there to be like a homeostatic equilibrium of priorities and allows everyone everything to get addressed. like hardware interrupts, and giving everyone that power, when it has a knock-on effect as well to whatever you working on it just doesn't make sense to me as something smart. I think it decreases productivity.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#469
That was good. Thank you.

Ever go swimming in a pond? It's not like a swimming pool. In a swimming pool, the water is clear, the bottom is sound, humans are the only creatures there, and you can be somewhat assured of your safety. In a pond, you can't see very far in the water, the bottom is mucky and soft, there are all sorts of other creatures, and something bad may very well happen to you.

A swimming pool is not a natural system. It takes lots of work and diligence to keep it running, and even then, bad things happen. Fortunately, a swimming pool is a system with a mostly finite set of parameters to change and a similarly-small set of outcomes to manage.

Technology, startups, and BigCorps are natural systems. They're like the pond; they evolved over time without any one person managing any of it.

It took me a long time to realize that many things in life were like that pond when I was thinking most of the world was like a swimming pool. There's nothing wrong with diving into various ecosystems that have emerged out of human complexity. In fact, you can find pleasures there you can find nowhere else. But there are significant differences that nobody tells you about. These systems are emergent, they have tons of variables you might never encounter or understand, and they change based on the actions of thousands, perhaps millions of people, all of whom are not aware that they are, in effect, managing the system. (Even if they knew, no one person has the mental ability to manage all of that.)

I said all of that to say this: natural systems do not have your best interests in mind. You form a startup? Ok, there's a preexisting set of "ramps" you are supposed to get on: bootstrap, niche, unicorn, etc. People who see you in the startup world see you as being on one of those ramps. That is how they process your existence. Same goes for BigCorps: the rule there is to get along, not make waves, and have people think of you as energetic, competent, and friendly.

These are not necessarily bad systems, but you have to keep in mind everyday you interact with them that it is ultimately you who are responsible for your emotional and personal safety, not the system (No matter what they might say to you)

So yes, be disillusioned. It sounds like you've earned it. Then reflect, learn, heal, and engage differently. You've been through a tough experience. I wish you the best. If you're half as smart as you sound, you've got this.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#470

this does seem like burnout but there is something else at play here. something which i have felt quite a lot is that in the 90s a lot of programming was creative and fun. it was to challenge authority. it created things like winamp.. it really whips the llama's ass. when is the last time you heard of a recent startup with a title like that? nowadays everyone around me is working on startups or talking to investors w…

In the 90's, programming was not as cumbersome (today it's building on top a bunch of volatile APIs that are obsolete every few years) and more rewarding (fewer people, projects, so more fame for everyone).

There's also much more public knowledge about much easier ways to make money these days. Why slave away in a dilbertesque environment when you can just stream your gaming sessions on Twitch or so... So of course those who find a normal tech job hard and exhausting will be discouraged at some point.

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