Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank • Hacker News Board

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#461

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

iudqnolq wrote: post #117

CamperBob2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, that's a general statement that doesn't apply here. Rest assured that heads will roll/have already rolled over this.

You are completely right I made a general argument. I didn't say that Epstein must have committed suicide. I said that an argument based in the idea that Epstein was treated in a shockingly irregular manner ignores the state of the US justice system. As to heads rolling, the low-level guards in charge of watching Epstein are on unpaid leave and under investigation. The head of the Bureau of Prisons has been demoted t…

Speaking of heads rolling:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/us/jeffrey-epstein-guard-char...

Not defending these people, mind you, or anyone involved. Just saying that either some shenanigans were afoot, or Epstein found himself at the center of an astonishing vortex of stupidity and carelessness, the likes of which is seldom seen in government or anywhere else. It's easier to imagine Barney Fife at Nuremberg.

Whether the people responsible were designated patsies or garden-variety lazy dumbasses, they are not in for a good time.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#462

Post by iudqnolq » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #461

iudqnolq wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely right I made a general argument. I didn't say that Epstein must have committed suicide. I said that an argument based in the idea that Epstein was treated in a shockingly irregular manner ignores the state of the US justice system. As to heads rolling, the low-level guards in charge of watching Epstein are on unpaid leave and under investigation. The head of the Bureau of Prisons has been demoted t…

Speaking of heads rolling: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/us/jeffrey-epstein-guard-char... Not defending these people, mind you, or anyone involved. Just saying that either some shenanigans were afoot, or Epstein found himself at the center of an astonishing vortex of stupidity and carelessness, the likes of which is seldom seen in government or anywhere else. It's easier to imagine Barney Fife at Nuremberg. Whether…

My argument is that the federal prison system outrageously mistreats detainees as a matter of course. Limited evidence suggests employees in the prison he was in habitually falsified reporting to get out of work. I'm done with this thread now, but I'd encourage you to read the Slate article I linked to.

One of the articles that I linked to earlier in this thread is an interview with an academic who said she'd been trying to draw attention to the outrageous mistreatment of the detainees in that prison for years and thought it was really a shame that it took something happening to someone as famous as Epstein for it to be covered in the news.

All my point was was that you can't use the fact that he was treated outrageously badly by the guards to prove that it was a conspiracy. What happened to Epstein should be taken as a wake-up call for us to reform our judicial system.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#463

Post by _0ffh » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

vintermann wrote: post #406

roenxi wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're trying to store cash anonymously from the government, there's not really a legal avenue for that. That is a succinct summary of the initial complaint. We're moving from a world where a buyer and vendor agreeing means something will happen to a world where buyer, vendor, bank and government all have to agree before something will happen. This is not a world that will cope well with change. There are big in…

> We're moving from a world where a buyer and vendor agreeing means something will happen to a world where buyer, vendor, bank and government all have to agree before something will happen. No, we were never in that world. The only truly bilateral agreement is a gentlemen's agreement. Trust usually relies on certain facts being public, and visible to a whole lot of people besides the transacting parties. "Who owns wh…

No, that does not necessitate transactions to be public, just provable (and, arguably, legal).

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#464

Post by matheusmoreira » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #263

_8j50 wrote: post #70

From what I read the hack was not sophisticated at all. If they had decent endpoint protection this would not have happened. Maybe they disabled defender after the initial access and privesc because defender blocks Get-Keystrokes and other things in empire,even with significant modification. Anyway, I don't care about the hacktivism and propaganda (don't really get it -- tbh,rich people bad/corrupt?) But would very m…

Here's the thing. While most people on HN tend to be in the global top performers when it comes to IT, the vast majority of businesses are simply ripe, low hanging fruit just waiting to be breached, and almost every time it is because of a failure of management to understand the importance of those things. Way too many 60 year old men who barely know how to use a computer are at the top of orgs, and are stuck in the…

> I also put a lot of this on the heads of IT directors or senior sysadmins, who are failing to convey the importance of the matter to those C-levels in terms they understand.

Why? Understanding the risks involved before making a decision is the responsibility of executives. If they calculate that the risks are minimal and crackers prove them wrong by causing damage to the tune of millions, they have only themselves to blame.

How many times have people explained the need for things to be done properly, only for proper infrastructure to be written off as too costly and unnecessary? The fact is they are taking a calculated risk: they get to spend less on information security by assuming nothing bad will happen. Claiming that it's the fault of system administrators is just yet another power move: scapegoating in order to avoid responsibility.

They make the decisions and should face the consequences.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#465

Post by kortilla » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

immawizard wrote: post #291

kortilla wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s certainly a popular view, but it’s not a given by any means. You will find plenty of people that think giving their children $100 should be possible without any government intervention or taxation. Unless you’re against that as well, we’re talking about arbitrary lines for when the government gets to wet its beak.

There’s an arbitrary line between handshake and battery, yet most people and the law system can see the difference. Claiming there’s no qualitative difference between someone giving $100 dollar to their child as a birthday gift, and inheritance of billion dollars, seems like a weak argument.

Then it should be obvious, no? Is $1 million ok? That’s a small single family home in Palo Alto in disrepair.

So how about $5 mil? Nice larger lot home in Palo Alto that some dying parents bought in 1940. Not even retirement money in the bay but could be middle class retirement in Alaska.

Where is your “obvious” line? Your handshake/battery analogy is shitty because it involves a victim and medical/first responder reports.

We’re talking about setting some line where we feel as a society it’s morally ok to start taking money that has already been taxed strictly based on “that seems excessive” without any logical criteria.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#466

Post by tomohawk » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #405

tomohawk wrote: post #378

Consider this holocaust survivor. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/holocaust-surviv... His family is murdered by Nazis but he escapes to the UK. He sets up offshore funds in the event something like the holocaust happens again, but the tax authorities go after him. This is one of many reasons for people to set up offshore accounts that have nothing to do with illegal activities. How many people like this h…

> How many people like this has this person hurt? Could be for an holocaust fund, Bezos secret birthday party fund or for your new 4k TV it's all the same, pay your taxes, then do whatever you want with your money. It really isn't that complex.

You seem to be conflating people keeping money in offshore accounts with cheating on taxes. Some people who have offshore accounts probably cheat. Other people are not cheating. The referenced person was not cheating, and, not that he needed it, he had a very good reason for having the offshore accounts.

Hacking in and publicizing peoples offshore account information hurts both groups. It's irresponsible. It hurts people who pay their taxes and are not doing anything wrong. If a government went in and, without any due process, started convicting people just because they had an offshore account, we would not be praising that government.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#467

Post by vintermann » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

_0ffh wrote: post #463

vintermann wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're moving from a world where a buyer and vendor agreeing means something will happen to a world where buyer, vendor, bank and government all have to agree before something will happen. No, we were never in that world. The only truly bilateral agreement is a gentlemen's agreement. Trust usually relies on certain facts being public, and visible to a whole lot of people besides the transacting parties. "Who owns wh…

No, that does not necessitate transactions to be public, just provable (and, arguably, legal).

If I don't know even know what's your property, how should I respect it?

And even if there's some assertion that an unknown someone owns something, _why_ should we respect it? Shouldn't we as a society just take it, and ask the owner to show himself if he minds? That seems a very reasonable solution to problems like tax paradises and shell companies if you ask me.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#468

Post by dllthomas » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

squiggleblaz wrote: post #373

dllthomas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIUC, the "problem with democracy" being pointed to is not the outcome in this particular case, but the general tendency for us to make decisions that sound good without thinking too deeply.

In a democracy, we're not the ones who are making the decisions. The decisions are, by and large, out of our control. We decide who makes the decision, but the same decisions tend to get made on the majority of issues. So is the problem that our decider selection process is flawed and puts up deciders who don't think deeply, or is it (more likely) that whoever you put into that position is likely to come up with the…

> In a democracy, we're not the ones who are making the decisions.

In a representative democracy, as opposed to a direct democracy, yes. In much of the US, we have a bit of both, in practice.

But even in the case of representative democracy, as long as deciders are judged based on (proposed or actual) actions, our decisions about the deciders will be based on what we think about those actions. To whatever degree it's a problem that we don't think too deeply about things, it will be a problem in a representative democracy by virtue of deciders thinking deeply about what people generally will think more than what will actually give the outcomes people generally want (where those differ - which is at least "sometimes" by the nature of our premise).

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#469

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 10:15 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #437

arethuza wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's usually obvious who (person or business) controls the land anyway" That's really not the case if the asset is owned by an opaque offshore company or trust - it's then pretty much impossible to know who the beneficial owner actually is.

Sort-of. You can make use of Adverse Possession to take ownership of land. The owner must reclaim their property, (and prove their ownership) or loose all rights to it. Unfortunately in UK squatting in a residential property is a crime, amusingly adverse possession still applies - you could claim someone's house but go to jail. It's a weak threat though, most luxury apartment blocks used for 'investment' have securit…

[deleted]

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#470

Post by BoorishBears » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #434

BoorishBears wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize the first-world middle class taking cruises is as much a part of the rich as billionaires right? A yearly salary of something like 32k puts you in the global 1% of earners. I won't be so strict about the definition of the rich, but families having money for cruises are definitely part of the demographic I'm speaking to. And I mean, vacations is are just the tip of the iceberg, those people so poor they ha…

Being the global 1% earner means nothing in this context. Income is measured against context of currency. A USD can indeed buy a lot but perhaps housing is a lot cheaper in subsaharan africa than Manhattan? Same for food and other expenses? Regardless of their place in the world, being rich is only significant to how much expendible money you have left after accounting for neccessities. Even in america, $80k/yr can m…

You spent a whole paragraph arguing a point invalidated in the next sentence when I point out I'm not using the 1% criteria, but rather the fact you have enough disposable income for a cruise (yes, financing it counts)

And my firewood "analogy" is sensationalist?

Is that a joke or are you just that out of touch with the reality of the actual poor.

My parents grew up in those conditions, and even as recently as the last few years we've had family members back home in that situation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/science/earth/16degrees.h...

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Your second paragraph is non sequitur. You didn't ask that question or even imply it!

If your point of your screed there is climate change is not worth fighting, it's not a unique viewpoint.

What a terrible thing if we were to come up with less polluting ways of living for no real benefit huh?