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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

gitlab.com

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#461

I wrote another comment arguing that this proposal was both racist and discriminatory, which got flagged and deleted without explanation, presumably because I worded it in such a way as to give an example that might resonate more with Americans by using examples of specific groups of people that have experienced oppression in the US. In the interests of quality discussion on HN, I'm going to make another attempt but…

I think you're really missing the point of this entire discussion in the first place.

This came up because of a client request.

Your question about whether people from other countries can be considered trustworthy is completely irrelevant.

The fact is, organizations exist that are at polar odds with governments that exist today. It is not unreasonable to, for example, have a 'Uyghur Oppression Awareness Group' require that all of their data be handled by NOT-CHINA. It has nothing to do with Chinese people, or their ethnicity. It has to do with the fact that if an employee is able to access their data, and the government has an incentive to take that data, the government can easily force that person to hand over that data.

This exists in many countries, Russia, China, USA, Australia, UK, the list is very long.

Your argument is flawed because you're arguing the wrong point. The trustworthiness of an individual is not relevant in any capacity.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#462
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are about 250 or so. it's not hard to make a complete list and drop the few undesired ones.

The point is that those 250 countries all have different legislation and cultures. The only concern is not "we don't want the Chinese government to have access to user data". That's the only concern for Gitlab (well that and not violating US laws in regards to who they can do business with), but it is not as simple for many other companies. Going from a whitelist to a blacklist is hard because you need to either indi…

i am not sure we are getting anywhere with this argument. i don't really see the point. when a list has a fixed number of possible entries, then the difference between whitelist and blacklist is purely academic. the result is exactly the same.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#463
(Poor English warning...)

As a Chinese I'm actually very disappointed at Gitlab. I think anyone wouldn't be happy if one's country is banned from the company. And I also think some people just worry too much about people in China. Actually, ordinary people in China are not so oppressed by the government. And ordinary developers from China is just as ones in America. Few of them will steal data from the company.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#464
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understood it correctly, this should be a nationality block, not country-of-residence.

This would be even more ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? The espionage laws in question apply to individuals / nationality, and are explicitly aimed at persons living abroad.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very quickly escalates to discrimination against Chinese people in the US, as evidenced by the highly upvoted comment I originally responded to. I'm sorry if I get my knickers twisted about people proposing an entire race of people pose a national security threat, but this sort of xenophobia has rarely gone well in history.

Chinese and Russians living outside of China and Russia will not be affected by the ban. You keep calling it xenophobia even after you've been proven wrong when you claimed this is targetted at green-card holders. You are absolutely disengenuous and have no intention at good-faith discussion.

Read the GP comment, which says this is a good first step and then muses about expanding the ban to Green Card holders: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21438366

I then suggest you edit out your erroneous personal attacks.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter. As long as a security clearance isn’t required, discriminating based on notational origin is a big no no from an ethical perspective, even if it was legal. I hope we learned our lesson during WW2.

Have you ever been to China? Such discrimination happens left, right and center. If you’re of an “acceptable” origin and have the right skin color, you might be ok...

and where it's different? look at distribution of people of color among boards of directors, senate etc.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived and worked in China for almost 10 years. I get that the foreigner glass ceiling is much lower there than here, and things like naked officials are actively discriminated against in government. That has nothing to do with the USA, however.

Well, it does. Because they will use your ethical values against you to slowly boil you like a frog in a pot 'til you find yourself in a concentration camp having your organs harvested. Sometimes bad things have to happen to prevent worse things.

Verwoed

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese and Russians living outside of China and Russia will not be affected by the ban. You keep calling it xenophobia even after you've been proven wrong when you claimed this is targetted at green-card holders. You are absolutely disengenuous and have no intention at good-faith discussion.

Read the GP comment, which says this is a good first step and then muses about expanding the ban to Green Card holders: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21438366 I then suggest you edit out your erroneous personal attacks.

You seem very focused on China only...why is that? GP's "musing" equally affects Russians. Or are Russians not something your ideology would allow you to defend?

Regardless, the GP does raise a valid point that if you have family living under the heel of a totalitarian dictatorship they can and will be used as leverage.

Your whinging won't change that fact, and it has nothing to do with them being Chinese (or Russian!), and everything to do with their country's government.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#470
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the GDP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

For a counter example of GDP using Purchasing Power Parity where China is "much" bigger under this metric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

The difference between China/US in nominal GDP is much much greater than the difference in PPP. Secondly China is a known currency manipulator so I am inclined to pay less heed to the PPP. Finally the GDP per capita of China is absolutely dismal. Vast majority of the people there are not doing well and it's not a prosperous country. It's a third world country with vast majority of its citizens in poverty.
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