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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#461

Post by squarefoot »

mikelyons wrote: post #162
squarefoot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To fight the censorship cancer, would the western world have to agree to exclude and isolate China?" I would rather wait the day our beloved western world agrees on a single, objective, independent definition on what censorship is, then I would want to see people like Snowden, Manning, Assange and similar others walk free and unharmed. That day I could concede we would have superior moral grounds to exclude and isol…

Can you extrapolate about the link between whistle-blowers and the definition of censorship? It's unclear to me what point you're intending to make.

My point is that their "crimes" were painted as such by the same establishment which got damaged by their revelations, while others would find many of those revelations a public service. Forcing the media to align with the establishment POV, with the intended purpose of manipulating public opinion about those people, is not much different from Chinese censorship: a pot-kettle-black scenario in which the cleanest one stinks badly.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#462

Post by AWildC182 »

vkou wrote: post #452
AWildC182 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is a political organization and, importantly, highly leveraged by China for political gain. The objective reality is that Taiwan is an independent country that sets its own laws and is free to conduct its own foreign relations.

The objective reality is that most of the world, including the United States, does not actually recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country. It recognizes that it exists as... Something. I think you would be hard-pressed to argue that the Department of State, and its counterparts in Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Brazil, Japan[1], etc, etc, etc, have been 'highly leveraged by China for political g…

Countries that don't recognize Taiwan, the US included, do so solely because the GDP of China is much greater than the GDP of Taiwan and China is more than willing to throw their weight around in an attempt to legitimize their claim through coercion. If you hold a gun to someone's head and/or give them $100 and tell them to repeat that you are a cabbage, you don't become the cabbage, no matter how much of the world you coerce.

Both governments make claims against the other's land but that doesn't make them the same government.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#463

Post by incompatible »

thewholeview wrote: post #438
qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

It's not nonsense, and "everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country" is a flawed statement. The UN does not recognize Taiwan. Taiwan is recognized as a sovereignty by 19 UN member states. It has formal diplomatic relationships with ~50 UN member states. UN has 193 member states in total. Please refrain from using subjective unprovable ideology to represent the mass.

You are technically right in that most states recognize Taiwan as a province of the PRC. However, describing Taiwan as a distinct country is ambiguous, since "country" doesn't have a strict definition. E.g., it's normal to consider the parts of the UK, the Netherlands, and Denmark to be countries, although they are not independent. It's not much of a stretch to consider Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan, or Catalonia, to be countries too.

Edit: if you look at the font in question, it does have flags for England and Aruba, for example, so offering the flags doesn't imply that you are recognizing the places as sovereign states.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#464

Post by gataca »

alasdair_ wrote: post #456
hawkice wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can take a plane to Taipei. It isn't subjective or unprovable: the ROC will check your passport. They issue the currency you will use to buy food. The police work for them. Taxes are collected, exclusively, by them.

>I mean, you can take a plane to Taipei. It isn't subjective or unprovable: the ROC will check your passport. They issue the currency you will use to buy food. The police work for them. Taxes are collected, exclusively, by them. The question of whether or not ISIS is therefore a country is left as an exercise for the reader.

They were a country for a period of time. They had passports and a currency. I don’t see how that disproves OP’s point

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#466

Post by lonelappde »

xpe wrote: post #441
jiggliemon wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s one thing for India to censor something for a stupid reason. It makes me uncomfortable to have China be able to influence all these other global countries into global (or in this case localized) censorship. Hollywood, News Companies, anything else that China invests heavily has no choice but to fall in line with the censorship.

Yes, this reminds me of a similar, but more general argument: Free economics tends to promote liberal democracy. This is debatable of course. Historical patterns are complex: https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-notebook/2017/11/06/wh...

Free economics promote colonialism too.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#467

Post by paulific »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

Part of the politics is that the Republic of China still officially claims to be the legitimate government of the whole of China. So it really is recognize one or the other. Politics within Taiwan have so far prevented declaration of Taiwanese independence from China in any form, and the One-China policy that everybody agrees to prevents recognition of the PRC and establishment of two-state relationships. Until either of these political realities change, the formal fiction of unrecognized statehood is unlikely to change.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#468

Post by vkou »

ShteiLoups wrote: post #266
supernova87a wrote: post #257

I feel the need to inject some perspective here. Every country imposes requirements on manufacturers of devices or service providers that some person(s) might object to. If you choose to do business in that country, you play ball, or you leave. How you pick which ones that are tolerable enough to live with is the question -- and don't imagine that it's moral principles that define it. It's how much a company wants to…

This is more blatantly political. Do you have anything more I can read about the Isrealy/USA map censorship?

Adobe just cut off the entire country of Venezuela from the software it paid for, over a political row between the US and Venezuela.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#469

Post by rangibaby »

thesausageking wrote: post #256

The anger towards Apple in this thread is misdirected. The US government's official stance recognizes "that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China" and that "the United States does not support Taiwan independence" From: https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/ Why should Apple be expected to take a political stance at odds with the official Chinese and US government policies?

You forgot the first part of the US statement:

“The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China.”

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#470

Post by paulddraper »

thesausageking wrote: post #256

The anger towards Apple in this thread is misdirected. The US government's official stance recognizes "that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China" and that "the United States does not support Taiwan independence" From: https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/ Why should Apple be expected to take a political stance at odds with the official Chinese and US government policies?

> Why should Apple be expected to take a political stance

It is really a political stance to have Unicode Emoji 1.0 as a feature?

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