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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

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Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#461

Post by wil421 »

boulos wrote: post #451
mikeash wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers still have to receive the standard minimum wage. If their tips don’t bring them up to that level, their employer has to make up the difference. Of course, not all employers follow the law, but that’s the requirement.

Is that true, nationally? (I’ve heard conflicting things, and on my phone this is awfully hard to verify)

I worked in restaurants for 6 years before I graduated from college. Yes it is true, if your tips + $2 something per hour doesn’t equal minimum wage you will get paid more hourly.

A lot of States (or maybe cities) have much much higher minimum wages for servers than my state. California, Las Vegas, and maybe New York pay higher than the $2.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#462

Post by ausjke »

The IT revolution will leave some behind no matter what. The ones with good education will be at the top of food chain. The ones with enough education will make ends meet. Many of the rest will be left over. There is no fix, not universal welfare, not even overthrow the government and restart over.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#463

Post by scarface74 »

lyzan wrote: post #416
baq wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you 1) had a job 2) had access to the internet now trying learning anything for free online when you don't have money for food because you're jobless and don't have access to the internet because you don't have money for that either.

Yes, for (1) I had a $10/hr job working as a cashier until I saved up enough for a laptop and got an unpaid internship in tech. For (2) as I said: libraries are free, coffee shops are free. hotel lobbies are free, heck some whole areas have free Wi-Fi. Internet is very easy to find. I'll be the first to admit I had a good education, caring and supportive family, and my story would be different and harder without them…

I'll be the first to admit I had a good education, caring and supportive family, and my story would be different and harder without them, but I can't imagine a world that I didn't try to learn something new each day.

I don’t think you’re giving this enough weight. I went to a small unknown state college and got a degree in CS. The CS curriculum was horrible. My saving grace, was that I had been a hobbyist programmer since the mid 80s when my parents bought me my first computer. When I graduated in the mid 90s, I knew I wanted to get out of the small town I grew up in. My choices were to move to a slightly larger city and developing using technology that was already out of date, but would have provided me a salary to support myself, or moving to the major metro area where I still live not making nearly enough to support myself as a computer operator based on an internship that I had the previous year.

There was no way that I could have chosen that job if I my parents hadn’t already bought me a car, paid for insurance, paid my moving expenses, and help me pay my other bills for the first six months.

I “worked hard” but I didn’t have to work two jobs to support myself.

There was another guy who graduated with me, who was just as smart, but didn’t have parents that could help him. He had to get a job in the same place that I avoided like the plague. He’s still working there 20 some years later.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#464

Post by anovikov »

jmickey wrote: post #367
anovikov wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education - sure. The only purpose these masses can serve is acting as genetic pool for picking the best and uplift them through education. A permanent caste-like system is doomed as next generation of it won't be as performing as the previous one. But we have to understand that only a small majority - a few percent - of the poor will be uplifted. The rest has to be kept at bay in one way or the other. As for fortres…

But what is your end goal? What purpose does this caste system serve? History has shown that once people no longer believe they have a fair chance of achieving prosperity, they revolt. So, even ignoring any other characteristics, your way of social organisation is not stable in the long run.

How do you define 'fair'?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#465

Post by Fellshard »

boulos wrote: post #428

A few threads seem to believe that the minimum wage is high enough / need not be increased. I don’t actually want to argue about mechanism, but think that it’s imoortant to note that the math says our (current) minimum wage is demonstrably insufficient to remove poverty. With the Federal minimum wage currently at $7.25/hr, that’s just $15k/year at full-time. That puts many minimum wage workers below many countries’ a…

I think you'd need stronger evidence than has ever been given that raising minimum wage concurrently raises purchasing power, _especially_ for staples. In the end, it's a feel-good solution - politically, it's hard to pass up, as a great deal of people would be very happy about seeing their paycheck get bigger, without also examining whether the prices around them are going up as well, or noticing that their coworker cohorts are thinning out.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#467

Post by boulos »

ashaikh wrote: post #457
boulos wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true, nationally? (I’ve heard conflicting things, and on my phone this is awfully hard to verify)

Yes it is. See a link from the Department of Labor below. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Awesome, thanks! In the future, I won’t need to confuse the issue.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#468

Post by daddyofive »

m_fayer wrote: post #410
hhjinks wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not absolve her of her irresponsibility. 99% of 16-year-olds realize having a kid is a bad idea. She made her bed, and now she sleeps in it. I can empathize with her situation, but I can not empathize with anyone saying she is not herself at least partly responsible.

A modern wealthy society that allows a bad-but-understandable move by a 16 year old girl to basically wreck her entire life, is a cruel society. Also don't overlook that America is also supposed to be a country of redemption and second chances, and that we as a society derive strength from that. We foster risk-taking, and we don't throw away people who seriously screw up - but rather capitalize on the fact that those…

At 16, she could have chosen to do a million things that would have messed up her life. Kids can choose to hurt themselves in many ways. We can’t “not allow” kids to do jumps on their dirt bikes or venture into danger in other ways. Once they are given freedom from constant adult supervision, they have to act in self interest. You think that being 16 somehow absolves them from the responsibility of surviving. That’s ridiculous and unnatural.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#469

Post by UncleSlacky »

gepi79 wrote: post #235
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #170

America is a country of huge wealth. Wealthy in natural resources, capital equipment, labor ... fucking everything. And yet we have such terrible poverty. When I read stories about poor people in America, always there is lurking just below the surface the key element of scarcity. Not food. Not transportation. Not clothing. Not even, surprisingly, health care. The missing factor in all these broken lives is the simple…

The problem in the USA is lack of morality. The lack of morality to vote for decent politicians. Why do US citizens claim to want medicare for all but vote for Democrats or Republicans who do not want medicare for all ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX5GSClA8z4&t=207 The lack of morality that private property should be spent to help other persons in need. The lack of morality that allows an insane military budget a…

Not so much morality as empathy, I think.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#470

Post by rascul »

boulos wrote: post #451
mikeash wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers still have to receive the standard minimum wage. If their tips don’t bring them up to that level, their employer has to make up the difference. Of course, not all employers follow the law, but that’s the requirement.

Is that true, nationally? (I’ve heard conflicting things, and on my phone this is awfully hard to verify)

It's true, but not all employers track this or are willing to pay it unless forced.
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