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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#461

Post by panzagl »

digi_owl wrote: post #411
tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. disagree completely, it's not the 20-somethings that come to you and say "the budget we have is limited, and we have to prioritize, feature X might get us more exposure, so work on that and it doesn't matter if it breaks backwards compatibility, users will adapt" If upper mgmt goes after "oh shiny" there's not you c…

Then why oh why do i keep seeing FOSS projects with limited to no commercial interest keep doing rewrites with the latest "shiny" in mind?!

Because writing software is a fun hobby, maintaining it is work.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#462

Post by jacquesm »

Microsoft is squarely to blame here. People would leave Windows update on if:

- it would not potentially brick their computer

- it would not install all kinds of spyware

- it would be a net benefit to the user

- it would not be used to further MS's business goals at the expense of the users

Telling people not to turn of Windows Update is putting the horse behind the cart: Tell Microsoft to start respecting their users, then tell people to turn on Windows update.

Fat chance of that happening though.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#463

Post by MertsA »

supernovae wrote: post #374
novaleaf wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

>if there is something you do/don't like. MS listens.

Users have been very very vocal about dozens of things that Microsoft refuses to stop. What about all of the forced upgrades to Windows 10 without consent? For the longest time Microsoft just denied that they were even doing it. Then they just tried to justify it with marketing B.S. about how "Windows 10 is great, so no one should be complaining."

Then there's the embedded spyware in Windows 10 that's not able to be removed or disabled. Even just the adware, it should go without saying that no one wanted ads to show up in their OS. This shouldn't be something I should be forced to opt out of, it shouldn't exist in the first place. I shouldn't have to deal with Microsoft installing crap like candy crush on every windows PC on the planet.

Microsoft categorically doesn't listen to their users. Can you name a time when Apple or a prominent Linux distro has pulled any of this crap?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#464

Post by mcguire »

Having read the article and (most of) the comments here, there seems to be two basic responses:

1. For home users, turn on auto updates. Yes, MS's policies for updates suck, but the alternative is probably getting infected by something worse. For professional use, IT is probably going to turn it off, but then it is their responsibility to make sure critical updates get installed.

2. MS's policies suck, so everyone should disable auto updates. Then, make sure the machines have critical updates installed manually.

Unfortunately, history has clearly demonstrated that the second step of #2 doesn't happen. Heck, the NHS probably has a dedicated IT staff and that particular update hadn't bubbled to the top yet. That produces option 3:

3. Turn off updates to be moar bettar, then be surprised when the machine starts acting funny.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#465

Post by post_break »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #427
post_break wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run two OS's on my computer. Sometimes the clock gets out of wack. Guess which OS decided to update during working hours because the clock got it wrong.

Have you had the issue where Windows updates fuck around with your EFI partition and break your bootloader? I've gone through that one a few times

Yep. I now run a different bootloader that plays nice with OSX.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#466

Post by Arizhel »

cartoonfoxes wrote: post #391
Arizhel wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The victim is to blame. Microsoft's behaviors are well-known, so victims are to blame if they continue to use Microsoft platforms. CFD computation does not in any way require a Microsoft OS.

"Your shop runs SolidWorks? Don't worry! There's nothing intrinsic to CAD that requires a Microsoft OS. Switch to Linux!" Implementations actually matter. Hordes of us would jump ship if we could, but convincing vendors to port flagship software, or even do something as seemingly straightforward as a license migration is never easy.

How many of these customers have actually bitched out their vendors for not porting their software to non-MS OSes? None?

Sorry, I have no sympathy. Look for alternatives, or roll your own. Or find a new line of business altogether. Whining about your OS vendor abusing you is getting really, really old now. Like an abusive boyfriend, they're not going to change, so it's up to you to make a change.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#467

Post by MertsA »

enzanki_ars wrote: post #186
vocatus_gate wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations. In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom…

EDIT: Didn't recognize the username at first. I still have some doubts, but I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit. I recently used Tron, and I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates. I have some doubts about this story... The forced Windows 10 update was only sent to non-enterprise versions of Windows. I highly doubt any of th…

>I am pretty sure that running home versions of Windows in contexts like this is against the Windows TOS.

For Windows, Microsoft restricts features but not what purpose you can use it for if you're talking about Home versions. For Office however, the home version actually has restrictions in the TOS that limit use to only noncommercial purposes. For a standalone Windows box that is only used for some lab equipment and will never be domain joined there's a good chance that there's no technical reason to go with Windows Pro over Home.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#468

Post by eridius »

mattmanser wrote: post #253
vocatus_gate wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have some doubts about this story.... I highly doubt any of these experiments were running the home editions of Windows I guess you've never worked with budget-constrained grant projects before. > I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit 7 months on ice. > I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates. Tron doesn't perform ANY und…

So, no offence, but this reads more like you and your colleagues destroyed a multi-million $ project by trying to save a few dollars by using Windows Home instead of Enterprise? And you're pissed at MS because of this?

Why are you trying to excuse Microsoft's behavior here? Who could have predicted that Microsoft would have actually done what they did and forced the Windows 10 update on everyone?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#469

Post by MertsA »

creshal wrote: post #196
enzanki_ars wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Didn't recognize the username at first. I still have some doubts, but I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit. I recently used Tron, and I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates. I have some doubts about this story... The forced Windows 10 update was only sent to non-enterprise versions of Windows. I highly doubt any of th…

It was sent to all versions of Windows, as long as they weren't part of an Active Directory domain, and that detection was pretty flakey, too. If you had a mixed OS environment with a Samba-based domain (or no domain at all, because these machines just take data from lab equipment and shovel it onto network shares), there was a good chance of the update firing off anyway.

>that detection was pretty flakey, too.

FWIW there was a handful of reports of exactly that happening on /r/sysadmin. There was also a ton of domain joined machines that were spammed with the Windows 10 nagware but didn't actually upgrade on their own.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#470

Post by freehunter »

a_imho wrote: post #358
freehunter wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that I see the general sentiment over Windows 10 to be the opposite of Python 3. "Everyone" is mad Microsoft pushed Windows 10 too hard, meanwhile "everyone" is trying to get people to adopt Python 3 and wondering why it took big name libraries so long to convert. It's a big problem in tech, trying to get people to update. We might like to think of ourselves as progressive, but a lot of people in our world…

The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves. Agree with the first part, the second needs a very twisted definition of best or themselves. Offer something people want and they will upgrade. This alone tells very much about the win10 situation. Microsoft game is lock-in, if the cost of leaving their gar…

I have a friend who buys $20 shoes. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another pair of shoes. He laughs when I buy $70 shoes, but those $70 shoes last me four years. Over that four year period, he's spent $80 on shoes and I spent $70.

I have a friend who buys $500 laptops. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another laptop. He laughs when I buy $1000 laptops, but those $1000 laptops last me three years. Over that three year period, he's spent $1500 on laptops and I spent $1000.

I have a friend who uses Windows XP. Windows XP is better, it's faster, it's leaner, Aero is garbage, Metro is garbage. DirectX 12 is just a scam to get you to upgrade, there's no reason Windows XP isn't the best. But once a month he's calling me about some kind of virus he's gotten even though he runs Symantec every day.

Relying on an outdated piece of software is never the best decision. If Microsoft's updates bother you that much, stop using Microsoft software. Microsoft can't lock you in to anything, and there's very little that Windows offers that OSX, or to a lesser extent Linux, doesn't offer. The arguments against switching come down to "I hate Apple/Linux", in which case you've locked yourself into one vendor for irrational reasons, or "Apple is too expensive", in which case you have to wonder if that's actually true considering you're spending hours complaining about Microsoft updates, or the worst one, "I'm a Windows developer", which... why? If you hate Microsoft enough to want to switch but Visual Studio is the only thing holding you back, I don't feel bad for you. The only slightly legitimate complaint is the lack of games, but there are a ton of games for Mac these days and consoles do exist.

It's not really lock-in if you choose to be locked in.

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