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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. Blame the victim.

The victim is to blame. Microsoft's behaviors are well-known, so victims are to blame if they continue to use Microsoft platforms. CFD computation does not in any way require a Microsoft OS.

"Your shop runs SolidWorks? Don't worry! There's nothing intrinsic to CAD that requires a Microsoft OS. Switch to Linux!"

Implementations actually matter. Hordes of us would jump ship if we could, but convincing vendors to port flagship software, or even do something as seemingly straightforward as a license migration is never easy.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#392
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more accurate analogy would be going to the doctor to get vaccinated, only to discover that it comes with a dental checkup and cleaning. Some people are going to love that. Others are going to wonder why they got something that they did not ask for. A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Microsoft needs to deliver…

"dental checkup and cleaning" sounds much more benign than "multi-GB download of an entirely different OS"

And the doctor not nag you every few hours that you haven't had your dental check, while you're working.

And when you do get one, you don't lose sight.

(My favourite complaint is Windows replacing GPU drivers with MS approved broken ones on major updates.)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

>> However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) > This is now fixed.. Once bitten, twice shy. Most if not all of the non-tech people I work with would respond to this with "yeah, well, I don't care, I don't want to take the chance it reboots during a presentation/webinar/demo/etc ever again".

Also, forgiving a company for a technical mistake is a lot easier than trusting them again after a decision that implies they don't give a fuck about their customers.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#394
post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

Would you still have the same opinion on anti-vaxxers if vaccines were actually harmful?

We avoid taking a big amount of medication that would fix some problem just because it's harmful (and even medication that is less worse than the disease).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

> Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.

I don't want to have to tweak my fucking operating system to remove ads!! Also, I think we're asking too much of the average user. It's not obvious how to do most of the tweaks, so your random older/casual user won't do them, or maybe even realize that such a thing might be possible and go off to look up how to do it. They're more likely to just turn off updates.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess in the same way a farmer might listen to its cattle? A nasty disease or two would get fixed, nice food to keep them fed, but if they're telling the farmers "don't eat me" I can't imagine the farmers would be very receptive. Likewise. Stop spying on me, stop advertising to me, stop pushing products I don't want on me, stop treating my computer like your personal playground. None of this is going to gain tracti…

It is fixed. When you upgrade to RS2 it asks you about the services and you can disable them and you can disable automatic updates. BTW, this isn't unique to MS.. phones update all the time and the concept of the phone is going to change.. soon you will have just one device that does everything. Are people going to complain that MS can't then do what Apple/Google do in regards to spying, updates & patches?

[deleted]

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

> Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable. I don't want to have to tweak my fucking operating system to remove ads!! Also, I think we're asking too much of the average user. It's not obvious how to do most of the tweaks, so your random older/casual user won't do them, or maybe even realize that such a thing might be possible and go off to look up how to do it. They're more likely…

THe "ads" are recommended apps. You can disable that.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#398
post #261
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

A more accurate analogy would be going to the doctor to get vaccinated, only to discover that it comes with a dental checkup and cleaning. Some people are going to love that. Others are going to wonder why they got something that they did not ask for. A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Microsoft needs to deliver…

> A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim).

Except that there were demonstrated cases of MS inserting the "brainwashing drugs" on the updates. Many people had legitimate copies of Win XP bricked by XPA, MS alti-malware broke install a couple of times in Win7 (and off-line machines were bricked by DRM more than once), and, finally with Win10 we've officially got the spyware and adware coming through updates like people were long expecting.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. The epitome of this is the FOSS world that goes through a wrenching rewrite churn every 5 years or so as new heads take over "old" projects." Disagree thoroughly. The reason why people push shit through the security-updates channel is because of money and structural pressure from management to ensure adoption of the…

It's funny that I see the general sentiment over Windows 10 to be the opposite of Python 3. "Everyone" is mad Microsoft pushed Windows 10 too hard, meanwhile "everyone" is trying to get people to adopt Python 3 and wondering why it took big name libraries so long to convert. It's a big problem in tech, trying to get people to update. We might like to think of ourselves as progressive, but a lot of people in our world…

I'm not really seeing the corollary between Windows and Python in regards to new versions and the requiredness thereof. Windows is proprietary and has a cost, and customers of it have a business relationship with Microsoft. Python, by contrast, is free and libre, and is offered with no warranty implied. If the lack of support for Python 2 is proving to be an inconvenience for you and you won't upgrade to Python 3 for whatever reason, well then, all the source is available, and you can do the needful. Hell, you can even build, release, and distribute your own fork of Python 2 that gets continued updates. None of these options are available with Windows.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright man. Can you tell me which consumer-facing OS doesn't do those that you mentioned by default? Apple downloads setup files for major OS upgrades as well as system updates automatically without my consent too. I don't want Siri on my Mac too. How can I get back the enlarge window button without holding down alt on the Mac? Google Chrome is the software that pioneered the whole silent update thing. If you want t…

It's amazing how many people defend Apple while attacking Microsoft here. It's almost as if Apple pays people to do this. We run Windows 10 and the lastest Windows server on all our machines and don't have problems because we have good, in-house, local IT people and also good security on the edge routers.

The comment you're replying to points out a lot of obnoxious "We know better than you" flaws in Mac OS X that the user has no power to override. I don't see how that's a defense of Apple.
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