New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others • Hacker News Board

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#461

Post by fantazio » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 8:39 AM UTC

bdotdub wrote: post #439

eru wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But it seems silly from Apple to restrict all iPhone developers to a (very) short whitelist of languages.

Howso? They've spent the money and the time to create a great platform. It seems well within their rights to dictate a lot of the rules around what goes on the platform they created. And as mentioned above, they dont have a monopoly in the market so, from Apple's perspective, 'if you don't like it, there are other opportunities' ... developing for the bberry :)

"Apple responsible for 99.4% of mobile app sales in 2009"

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-....

check the numbers - AppStore IS a monopole ...

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#462

Post by fantazio » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 8:41 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #451

mechanical_fish wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is letting them fail in the market. On their competitors' devices. Don't worry, if you savor the cross-platform software experience there will be plenty of options for you. At bargain prices, in fact.

Yeah, that's true. iPhone users don't even want Google Voice.

oh yeah? how about calling europe with one click on ATT networks for 2c a minute?

... please - you Apple fan-boys should try things before jumping to conclusions ...

i dumped my iphone for a nexus specifically for Google Voice and Apple draconian control on the platform ...

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#463

Post by fantazio » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 9:08 AM UTC

"Apple responsible for 99.4% of mobile app sales in 2009"

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-...

so obviously AppStore is a monopole - the other 3~10 stores have a miserable 0.6% ... of course that says a lot about Apple genius and how its competitors are plain retarded ... but ...

still i think they are more and more abusing their dominant position with their draconian dev rules ... and that should be looked at - could present some legal challenges for them ... im no lawyer - but i think the only way they can get away with it is tru the private nature of the dev agreement ...

incidentally - i really think Apple is special - one of a kind genius company - but also because of that people cut them way too much slack ...

to prove my point - just try this simple mental exercise - try to picture - what would happen on this same forum if we were discussing about say - Microsoft - say Microsoft just put out a nice new license for Windows-7 that said you "can develop for W7 only if you use C#, .NET, Microsoft own compilers, Flash is banned and Redmond will need to approve all any application" ...

dude - it's so funny i cannot even finish typing it ... really - it just sounds so crazy - like a story from another world - a world of evil monopolistic corporations that try to control our free lives... yet all we did with this simple exercise is to change one word : Apple -> Microsoft ... and - last time i checked - Windows does not even have 99.4% of the market - more like 90% coupled with a boring, inferior resource hogging product that though comes with all the freedoms democracy brigs us ...

and that proves my point - we do cut Apple way too much slack just because they are so awesome in making great products ...

full disclosure - i owned both iPhone 2G and 3G, just recently dumped 3G for a nexus-one because id rather own an imperfect (though rapidly improving) democracy than in a perfect nazional-socialistic system ... i still use my mac - osx is awesome and kicks Windows-7 lower-back ... and just got an iPad - just because there are no other choices ... yet ...

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#464

Post by jrockway » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 11:18 AM UTC

fantazio wrote: post #462

jrockway wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's true. iPhone users don't even want Google Voice.

oh yeah? how about calling europe with one click on ATT networks for 2c a minute? ... please - you Apple fan-boys should try things before jumping to conclusions ... i dumped my iphone for a nexus specifically for Google Voice and Apple draconian control on the platform ...

Sarcasm, my friend. Take a look at my post history and call me an "Apple fan-boy" again...

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#465

Post by keeperofkeys » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 11:29 AM UTC

bdotdub wrote: post #439

eru wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But it seems silly from Apple to restrict all iPhone developers to a (very) short whitelist of languages.

Howso? They've spent the money and the time to create a great platform. It seems well within their rights to dictate a lot of the rules around what goes on the platform they created. And as mentioned above, they dont have a monopoly in the market so, from Apple's perspective, 'if you don't like it, there are other opportunities' ... developing for the bberry :)

Great platform it may be, but this rule is insane. Who cares how the compiled code was produced? What matters is how it runs on the platform.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#466

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 2:53 PM UTC

buster wrote: post #331

wisty wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a Sony Vaio Z, and install Lucid?

Yes, second Sony laptop ind the last 6 years (so i had the first one 5 years, and it's still in use without any hardware problems!). Displays are top notch, as well as the keyboards on the new one, best keyboard i've seen. Of course that's purely subjective ;)

Sadly, an IBM Selectric keyboard won't fit in a notebook ;-)

I specially loved the one that came with the 3278 terminal. And the clicky ones, like the ones that came with the 3290.

Nowadays, when on my desk, the netbook is hooked up to a Microsoft natural keyboard. I would like the Sun keyboard, but Sun won't ship it to me in Brazil and local dealers want... US$400 for it.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#467

Post by stevenN » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 4:29 PM UTC

keeperofkeys wrote: post #465

bdotdub wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Howso? They've spent the money and the time to create a great platform. It seems well within their rights to dictate a lot of the rules around what goes on the platform they created. And as mentioned above, they dont have a monopoly in the market so, from Apple's perspective, 'if you don't like it, there are other opportunities' ... developing for the bberry :)

Great platform it may be, but this rule is insane. Who cares how the compiled code was produced? What matters is how it runs on the platform.

OK. I come from a different background of programming than traditional consumer apps. In my "normal" job, I get a very small white list of programming languages. "C", "C++" (but no templates, multiple inheritance, no operator over-loading), "ADA", Assembly. Within each of these areas I am not allowed specific features. Recursion. OMG. I did that once and never again. Big nono. Even a simple things like:

   if (A && B)
   {
   }
   else if (A && !B)
   {
   }

is not legal as you can not fully test 1 of the four branches in the "else if()" case. Even "default" statements in "case" statements that can not be executed (because the switch statements cover 100% of the available options) can be an issue.

What I am getting at is, with programming there are rules. The rules Apple have are actually very minor and very easy to stay within. If you program to make political statements, choose Android or BB or Symbian. If you program to make money, pick the platform that will do that and follow the rules. If it stops making you money, move on. If you don't like the rules and don't want to abide by them, move on.

You can enjoy programming while still staying within the rules. Sometimes, it is part of the fun and challenge.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#468

Post by stevenN » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 4:53 PM UTC

fonestop wrote: post #458

tzs wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If the cross-platform experience is subpar, Apple should just let these apps fail in the market" Perhaps, like Nintendo, they learned the lessons from the collapse of the home video game market in 1983. When Nintendo was contemplating developing the NES, they took a deep look at what had caused the collapse. What they concluded was that the main cause of death was the market being flooded with too many crappy games.…

Nowadays Developers produce their games for all consoles e.g. FIFA 10 is available on Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo Wii, DS, PC, Mac and amazingly mobile too..! You can be sure a companies like EA will not align themselves exclusively to any particular platform! What happened in 1983 is irrelevant in today's market. Apple is trying to control the mobile telecommunications market and put their competitors out of busines…

"However what will kill the iPhone 4G is the free apps for ads idea."

That idea started 1.5 years ago. Now you get Google ads in your free apps. Now, as an option, you can have iAds or Google ads. So all Apple did is open an option (read choice) for developers already doing ads in apps.

Choice is now bad? Or is it good?

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#469

Post by stevenN » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 5:43 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #102

mortenjorck wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cross-platform experience is subpar, Apple should just let these apps fail in the market.

The average person's tolerance for faulty software is lower than it should be. I guess Apple wants to raise expectations, so that people are locked into the iPhone. ("OMG, that android app has ITS OWN KEYBOARD!!!111".) Of course, this is why I don't use C, C++, or Objective-C. I'm always a little surprised when someone writes code in one of those languages that actually runs.

"Of course, this is why I don't use C, C++, or Objective-C. I'm always a little surprised when someone writes code in one of those languages that actually runs."

Why does it really scare me when people that claim to programmers say stuff like that. If what you say is true, that you are "surprised when someone writes code in one of those languages that actually runs.", then you really should not be programming.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#470

Post by bnkr0 » Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 8:08 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #455

fantazio wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In all likelihood, Apple would argue—successfully—that the market should not be defined as the "iPhone software" market but as the "smartphone software" market, at which point they no longer have a monopoly and are no longer subject to anti-trust scrutiny. "Apple responsible for 99.4% of mobile app sales in 2009" http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-... ... it doesn't take a Phd to acknowled…

> the question for me is more technical = who can bring such a legal challenge? Presumably Adobe are the most likely candidates who also have serious legal firepower.

Anyone who buys apps would have standing, imo. but the developers/dev tool makers might have a better chance. Hell, if you go even farther, you could say other smartphone makers have standing - but they'd have to make a different kind of challenge.

This is a chicken-egg situation. Apple has Apps, so more people buy iPhones than other phones. with Adobe's dev tools, devs could make apps for more than one platform - that is a threat to apple. When apple shuts this down it is an anticompetitive act against other phone makers. Because if devs could put apps on more than one platform, then other platforms would become more appealing.