I think that its all about stereotypes and shatering the glass ceiling!
This is an amazing article for this! http://thefrejeleriexperiment.tumblr.com/
Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
461–470 of 562 posts
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#462I think that its all about stereotypes and shatering the glass ceiling!
This is an amazing article for this! http://thefrejeleriexperiment.tumblr.com/
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "sexist" to acknowledge reality. Men and women (on average) have different hormone levels, and those hormones do effect our emotions and our choices.
But to use those factual physical differences as a way to explain (read: justify ) archaic, false beliefs about other differences between men and women? Yeah, that's pretty sexist.
Which raises a question very similar to the one losteric asked earlier: is the idea that women are more nuturing and more attached to children an archaic, false belief, or a biological fact?
I don't know the answer, but merely asking the question as losteric did is not sexist.
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
New father here. My current employer provides two weeks of paternal leave. I ended up taking a third week of vacation time to extend this, which I'm in now. It still doesn't feel like it's enough. I'm exhausted today, despite taking a mid-day nap. When I go back next week, I will not be at my best, and there's no way of me being at my best short of sleeping in another room with earplugs while my wife does 100% of the…
Not sure where you live but there's FMLA in the USA for up to 12 weeks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_o...
I think that covers unpaid leave; three months without pay would put us in a crappy situation.
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For instance, in Germany the woman's job position must be held open for her until she decides to return to work (possibly years later), not to mention the full salary compensation months before and after giving-birth, when she is no longer working. The company will be reimbursed for the salary by the health insurance upon filling out a form. A company does not pay a single cent more than the cost of hiring another…
> A company does not pay a single cent more than the cost of hiring another person for the position. Losing someone with expertise/connections and onboarding someone new is a huge cost, though. Not just in the new person's salary, but in opportunity cost as that person slows down the people they work with in the process of getting up to speed.
Sure, but we are talking about 3.5 months (1.5 before birth, 2 after). In addition in the months before birth you are allowed to continue working if you wish so.
I'd argue most of the companies will be able to handle that. Especially since you have plenty of time to prepare.
Above is only the part which is different for men and women for obvious biological reasons. There is also a paternity system leave starting from 2 months after birth but this should ideally not discriminate either gender.
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#466What is interesting is the breakdown of motivations between men and women. It seems readily apparent that women on the whole prefer flexible work arrangements because of child raising obligations. This is exactly the same argument lobbed across the wage gap discussion for years now. Proponents of the wage-gap point that women have an unfair obligation to child-raising duties, which puts them at a disadvantage when co…
> unfair obligation to child-raising duties
I'd find it very disturbing if someone would actually think that ...
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
> male go-getter with supportive female companion Do you have any objective reasons why this is suboptimal? Maybe we should go the other way; for example in the Netherlands, many women (with children) choose to work part-time (because they can). So maybe the "status quo" is by choice.
Maybe it's a biological choice, maybe it's cultural and social momentum from hundreds of years of forcing gender roles legally and violently. Impossible to tell with our current experimental setup. I lean towards the latter though.
I lean towards the former. There are multiple reasons for this being a biological choice. One, women's childbearing period is more limited than men's, so it's rational for them to prioritize "taking care for the children" over "having a great career". Another is that because they give birth, they pretty much have to be absent from work (for a few days at least), whereas men don't, so again it's rational for a woman to take additional leave for childcare, so that only one parent gets penalized (by lower pay and less experience and future promotions) by taking time off. Of course, the latter only applies given everything else is equal; if the mother earns significantly more than the (step-)father, then it would be rational for her to take off only as many days an necessary for health reasons, with her partner providing the rest of childcare.
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just society, it's also biology. Even if "parenting" roles were completely equal, "childbirth" role would fall only on women, so they would still take more time off for children (and hence get lower pay).
Technically correct but irrelevant. Childbirth itself takes a couple weeks. A proportional pay gap from that would be well under one percent, and it could be offset by the fact that women live five years longer.
> A proportional pay gap from that would be well under one percent
If only pay gap were proportional... I'm afraid that employers penalize time off work disproportionally, probably exponentially; part-time work doesn't have half the salary of full-time work, and when employees take a few weeks off, they don't forgo only those weeks' salary, but also slow down their future learning, progress and promotions. Whether that's fair or not is debatable (I'd say it makes sense from employers' point of view, but they're probably unnecessarily harsh with it for game-theoretical reasons), but it probably affects all employees taking time off equally, not just women.
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We need to de-stigmatize flexible schedules. We need to upend the idea that family care is solely the domain of women (normalizing parental leave for fathers with newborns is a good start). Put another way, we need to upend the idea that hazardous and arduous jobs (often involving hard physical labor) are only the domain of men, and encourage more women to participate in industries like mining, firefighting, weldin…
If you make note of the differences in physiology between the male and female body, you might discover that there is a non-arbitrary reason why industries requiring hard physical labor have traditionally been the domain of men.
You might discover that we no longer heavily relying on human labor or do you sugest that women are incapable of operating machines?
Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries
#470From my anecdotal data, what I noticed the last few years I worked in Texas was that I was seeing a pretty remarkable influx of middle eastern women filling technology roles.
These women were some of the most competent people I've had the opportunity to work with. If you go out and have a drink and a conversation with some of them, you'll find out that they: feel like they have two strikes against them in the U.S. and in technology.
Their response is to work really effing hard to get insanely good at what they do. And it works for them. Most of the people I'm thinking of right now had higher titles and salaries than the males they work with.
I'm not arguing that there's no discrimination or anything stupid like that. But I do think there is some nuance to the situation. For example, the leadership and culture isn't driven by them, even if they are at the top end of the individual contributor spectrum.
It's a tough nut to crack. Knowing that you have certain knocks against you can have different effects for different people. One person can look at a situation and say, "What's the point? I'm not going to be successful because of gender/education(or lack of it, in my case)/ethnicity/company culture/whatever.
Other people look at that as part of the fun in life. Bucking the odds, overthrowing stereotypes. I don't know that there's a strong gender correlation with these attitudes.
But in my very non-representative experience, where you get hired and how much you make in the technology field are not consistently tied to whether you have boobs or if you have a college degree, or if you're a privileged white male, or if you're a recent immigrant.
I would not argue that the situation is all roses for women and minorities in this country. But I don't think it's as bad as is sometimes portrayed.
I think that the real race and gender discrimination start in early life education. Women are not-so-subtly guided in different directions than men are. And many minorities just don't have much of a chance because our education and social mechanisms are mostly just crap.
The imbalances that we do see in the job market are a direct result of our inadequate and unequal social and educational systems. The market is reflecting the values that we've decided on.