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Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

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Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#451

Post by necovek »

otterley wrote: post #449
squigz wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't really see the slippery slope. If there were such a slope, I would imagine that decades into this piracy thing, we'd be sliding down it. Yet most people don't pirate. Strange?

So you really don't understand that it should be OK for everyone to pirate if it's OK for you? Would you ever tell someone it's not OK? If so, why? And what makes you special and different?

We aren't saying anything you are implying.

You've started with a retort to a point that some who would never pay for some copyrighted work are not a loss to copyright owner if they illegally use their work.

You've since expanded to everyone and SW development, and want to extend it to people who are willing to pay for the value a particular work provides them.

So let's go back to the beginning: can you please quantify how big is a loss to the copyright owner if one watches a movie they would skip if the only option was to pay for it?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#452

Post by necovek »

otterley wrote: post #447
engintl wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure to understand where is the loss because the pirate would not pay for the product anyway.

1. We don't know that. Perhaps they would pay, at a lower price. 2. If it's OK for one person not to pay, why should anyone pay?

1. A copyright owner can test this easily by offering a discount.

2. Because they are getting significantly bigger value out of it. Because they know ahead of time they want more of this type of content to be produced. Because they have more disposable funds. Because it is available in their country legally. Because their streaming package already includes it. Because their cable package already includes it... Need I continue?

Again, you are conflating is it OK not to pay with any loss of profit: they are not the same even if there is correlation.

Nobody loses any money if you spill profanities at someone, but it's still not OK (even though it might not be illegal either).

Legallity and morality are not always in sync even if we try to keep one reflect the other. I am surprised this is even a discussion point.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#453

Post by necovek »

Manuel_D wrote: post #403
necovek wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the same until you test the effect of illegal copies of games not having any DRM protection at all (easy to copy/use illegally) on sales. Specifically, the conditions this was tested under were always-DRM, always-Denuvo, crack-becomes-available, and conclusions cannot easily be extrapolated to other scenarios if we are trying to be really scientific. If most games are cracked within days, that sounds like a…

By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this. The analysis studies pre-crack and post-crack sales, and specifically observed the dip in sales after the crack. The dip was larger, the closer to release the game was cracked. A theoretical day 1 crack caused a 20% drop in sales. I'm also not sure what you mean by games that are cracked almost immediately are a bett…

By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

A game can have DRM restrictions or not when published. I am referring to games that never had DRM restrictions but which you obtained illegally (eg. you copied it from a friend or downloaded it from internet).

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#454

Post by Manuel_D »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #424
Manuel_D wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this. The analysis studies pre-crack and post-crack sales, and specifically observed the dip in sales after the crack. The dip was larger, the closer to release the game was cracked. A theoretical day 1 crack caused a 20% drop in sales. I'm also not sure what you mean by games that are cracked almost immediately are a bett…

> By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Games released without DRM are less of an inconvenience to legitimate purchasers. They don't get negative sentiment from past customers complaining about the DRM causing problems for people who actually paid for it and thereby deter others from buying it. This can even cause the effect you're seeing: The game comes…

> Losing X% of sales to pissing off customers with DRM in order to avoid losing Y% of sales to pirates is only worth it if X is less than Y, but they're only even attempting to measure Y, and probably overestimating it.

But releasing a game without DRM means it's impossible to measure the value of Y, since a crack is immediately available. This is why this is sort of a nonsensical complaint.

> In addition to that, once the crack is available, you're stuck with DRM if you pay but not if you use the cracked version, so then the cracked version is better. It outcompetes paying not just on price but also on utility, whereas if the paying got you no DRM to begin with then the cracked version would have only one advantage instead of two.

Many (most?) publishers release versions of games without DRM ounces cracks are available. What you describe here is not necessarily the case.

If there really were a pool of buyers who would purchase legal versions of games absent DRM, the we should see a bump in sales once DRM-free versions are released. But no such bump in sales materializes. If there is such a population of would-be buyers that are turned off by DRM, they are evidently smaller than the pool of buyers who would have chosen to pirate if given the opportunity.

Is it really that hard to believe that if given the choice to pay or receive a product for free more people choose the latter than if there is no free option?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#455

Post by tracker1 »

pessimizer wrote: post #321
tracker1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it... I had an ER trip, pre ACA (Obamacare) where my health insurance max was 500k, and my bill was like $370k after all was said and done... I worked a lot the next 7 years to pay off/down what I could, then at that point, I just stopped as it was off my credit score, and everyone that took reasonable payment arrangements or settled for an amount that fit in my tax return, bonus, etc.. had been paid. I definit…

Just what we need, another Rube Goldberg machine to lay over the current Rube Goldberg machine in order to avoid "socialism." Somehow a socialist army, police, and fire department work, but not healthcare, because it is special.

Well, I see lots of calls from left/socialist leaning people to abolish the police and army as it stands. How much corruption already happens in the govt across local and national programs as it stands.. do you think this would be better if it gets expanded?

Police and Fire agencies are local, not national for the most part.

Also, What would it cost to buy all the hospitals and urgent care facilities across the US? Do we just print more money for this? I mean, what would that do to inflation for the next decade as it would be greater than all the COVID spending increases by a pretty wide margin.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#457

Post by otterley »

necovek wrote: post #451
otterley wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you really don't understand that it should be OK for everyone to pirate if it's OK for you? Would you ever tell someone it's not OK? If so, why? And what makes you special and different?

We aren't saying anything you are implying. You've started with a retort to a point that some who would never pay for some copyrighted work are not a loss to copyright owner if they illegally use their work. You've since expanded to everyone and SW development, and want to extend it to people who are willing to pay for the value a particular work provides them. So let's go back to the beginning: can you please quanti…

No, I'm not going to do that. And here's why: because if you have an excuse, everyone has an excuse. And if everyone has an excuse, the entire system falls apart.

I'll reiterate what I said above: entertainment and software are not life's essentials. Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#458

Post by squigz »

otterley wrote: post #457
necovek wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't saying anything you are implying. You've started with a retort to a point that some who would never pay for some copyrighted work are not a loss to copyright owner if they illegally use their work. You've since expanded to everyone and SW development, and want to extend it to people who are willing to pay for the value a particular work provides them. So let's go back to the beginning: can you please quanti…

No, I'm not going to do that. And here's why: because if you have an excuse, everyone has an excuse. And if everyone has an excuse, the entire system falls apart. I'll reiterate what I said above: entertainment and software are not life's essentials. Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them.

Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either.

On the other hand, I bet there have been some pretty serious repercussions due to the sweeping bans like in TFA.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#459

Post by scotty79 »

jimbokun wrote: post #426
scotty79 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically EU should step in whenever country level government doesn't do a good enough job for its citizens. It's not strong enough to do that yet but a lot of people with cheap governments wish it was.

So Spanish people are too stupid to vote for their own policy preferences? How do you know the EU is guaranteed to do a better job than national governments representing the desires of that nation’s citizens?

Ask Hungarians at any point of the last 16 years. The problem is that 30% vote in a conman. 29% of people try to prevent that. Then 100% of people suffer for years.

It happened in Poland and in Hungary.

And even if that scenario doesn't play out exactly like that it always works this way to some degree.

People need enlightened remote central power to protect them from local petty tyrants.

It's the same thing as HOAs. If there aren't enough laws (with enforcement) in place, people tend to be exploited by "voluntarily" chosen local tyrants. At the level of home owners associacion, or at the level of national government.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#460

Post by Manuel_D »

necovek wrote: post #453
Manuel_D wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this. The analysis studies pre-crack and post-crack sales, and specifically observed the dip in sales after the crack. The dip was larger, the closer to release the game was cracked. A theoretical day 1 crack caused a 20% drop in sales. I'm also not sure what you mean by games that are cracked almost immediately are a bett…

By definition, illegal copies of games don't have DRM protection. I'm not sure what you mean by this. A game can have DRM restrictions or not when published. I am referring to games that never had DRM restrictions but which you obtained illegally (eg. you copied it from a friend or downloaded it from internet).

Games that never had DRM restrictions to begin with are also pirated on day 1. There's no way to measure the sales before and after a crack is released, because the former period is basically zero.
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