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AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

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Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#451

Post by alephnerd »

whoknowsidont wrote: post #444
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the tools that existed for remote work had been there, largely in the same fashion and capability, for decades. Trying to be charitable, but that is just complete nonsense. I managed an offshore team in 2007, and I managed offshore devs in 2022, and the experiences were world and away different. You're either totally full of shit or just managed teams on some other planet or something.

Detail what changed? Because I can't point to anything. And I've been doing this for 4+ decades. A lot of that remote. So you're claiming things radically changed, and if such changes caused a huge shift in the workforce it should be pretty easy to give some examples, yeah? Instead of going "you're full of shit", just answer the question at hand and the one that was given to you multiple times. The fact that it's so…

Not OP but a couple major changes that didn't exist in most companies 20 years ago that reduced friction from an organizational perspective.

1. Gigabit internet - video call quality is significantly better than it was 10-15 years ago.

2. Zoom/Google Meets - the attention Zoom gave to UX just wasn't matched by any other precursor. Google Meets is a close second.

3. GSuite/O365 - sharing documents across organizations and being able to search for them successfully org wide has gotten much better now due to tools like Glean

4. Slack - most traditional companies didn't adopt Slack until the pandemic. Before that they were primarily leveraging email

There has been a whole decade of evolution in productivity and DevTooling throughout the 2010s, and the COVID WFH period forced most orgs (especially traditional orgs) to adopt a lot of that tooling.

On top of that, a large number of mid-level managers, engineers, PMs, and even VPs are in naturalization limbo, so it's become easy to find people to end up leading offices back in their home country while enforcing the same standards as back in the US. MS did this in Israel back in the 2010s, and most companies began doing something similar across Eastern Europe and India during the early years of COVID because most companies legitimately were worried it would become a Great Recession level event.

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#452

Post by questionableans »

mgh95 wrote: post #445
questionableans wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is shockingly bad. I’m assuming you’re using “talent” euphemistically here. For a recent job opening I was looking to fill, HR sent us all of the applications rather than doing their own filtering (they did first round calls with people engineering highlighted). The level of resume spam is absolutely staggering. So many applicants to jobs that have no obvious connection to their stated skills & experience, w…

> For a recent job opening I was looking to fill, HR sent us all of the applications rather than doing their own filtering (they did first round calls with people engineering highlighted). If I can ask, what is it you think of work as? Most jobs are just that: a job, an economic transfer from employer to employee to perform specific tasks. I hate to say it, but what do you think most Indians working for google, or fa…

As I mentioned, this is a privileged position, but I see work as an opportunity to do something I and others find meaningful and useful. I’m paid so that I can afford to focus my time on that work without worrying about money. I seek out employers and co-workers with whom my goals are aligned, and we go our separate ways if that ever ceases to be the case.

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#453

Post by alephnerd »

bradlys wrote: post #249
oxfordmale wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsourcing comes and goes in waves. Good talent in India and the Philippines tend to work for FAANG companies, often at very comparable salaries to the west. The remainder of the talent tends to struggle with some of the outsourced work, but with AI they can now give a semblance of competence. In the UK a major retailer, Mark and Spencer got hacked after outsourcing work to India. They couldn't fulfill orders online…

> Good talent in India and the Philippines tend to work for FAANG companies, often at very comparable salaries to the west. I've never heard of typical senior engineers getting paid $400k/yr in those locations. Outside the US, I've only heard of Zurich being the only comparable location.

Yea almost no one is making Bay Area level TCs in either location aside from those directly relocated from the Bay or working in HFT at Citadel, Jane Street, or DE Shaw, but you will be able to make Germany or UK level TC (US$50k-110k) with the right track record and experience. Ofc, an equally large cohort will be earning low salaries in the $5k-15k range, but those are largely employed at WITCH or EPAM type companies which employers are trying to cut out of the loop.

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#454

Post by mgh95 »

questionableans wrote: post #452
mgh95 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a recent job opening I was looking to fill, HR sent us all of the applications rather than doing their own filtering (they did first round calls with people engineering highlighted). If I can ask, what is it you think of work as? Most jobs are just that: a job, an economic transfer from employer to employee to perform specific tasks. I hate to say it, but what do you think most Indians working for google, or fa…

As I mentioned, this is a privileged position, but I see work as an opportunity to do something I and others find meaningful and useful. I’m paid so that I can afford to focus my time on that work without worrying about money. I seek out employers and co-workers with whom my goals are aligned, and we go our separate ways if that ever ceases to be the case.

If I may ask, is it the production of software generally or specific vertical that makes you feel this way?

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#455

Post by siliconc0w »

harshaw wrote: post #391
siliconc0w wrote: post #228

There is certainly pressure to spend money on and use AI tools. I know multiple people at different companies whose managers brought up low AI utilization in their reviews. This is, of course, really stupid but here we are.

Why? I look at this. I want engineers to use the tools on the stuff that AI is good at so we can do more high value work.

It's measuring inputs instead of outputs. If AI is useful, it'll get used.

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#456

Post by vivzkestrel »

moominpapa wrote: post #283

Lost my previous job not to AI but to a pincer movement of Indians taking up positions here in the UK effectively forming a bridgehead to subsequently have the non-management roles outsourced to India. From purely my own anecdotal experience, I found my Indian coworkers very friendly when I could provide something, but once they had the whip hand their attitude was markedly different.

indian dude here, sorry to hear that. The way it gets talked over in local circles is that most people dont like the concept of minimum wage when they have to pay someone. The thing about most Indians is that they dont have clear distinct personal time vs professional time. Even if a boss asks them to make a presentation at 10 pm, they'll do it. They feel that people of other nationalities mostly developed countries would not put up with such workplace behavior. Unfortunately it is a race to the bottom on that one

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#457

Post by s-lambert »

harshaw wrote: post #391
siliconc0w wrote: post #228

There is certainly pressure to spend money on and use AI tools. I know multiple people at different companies whose managers brought up low AI utilization in their reviews. This is, of course, really stupid but here we are.

Why? I look at this. I want engineers to use the tools on the stuff that AI is good at so we can do more high value work.

If it's obviously useful then people shouldn't need to be prodded into using it. Maybe there are actual downsides to rushing through everything with AI, maybe people can't actually work on the hard things 100% of the time.

I just don't understand this need to rush, software already moves fast without AI tools. Software developers already make a lot of money for their companies that their salaries are easily covered. Realistically people could develop software 10x slower than now and the world would still keep progressing.

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#458

Post by potatowaffle »

submeta wrote: post #132
diamond559 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What job did the llm do that was worth 200k Euro to you? Be extremely specific w/ hours worked etc bc we all totally believe you!

It was an innovation project, with an endowment of 200k. The task was to implement an llm based bot platform in a company with 700+ coworkers. After demoing MVPs, got 40k and access to experts I never needed to use. Deployed open source AWS solution, built customizations, landing pages, and data crawlers entirely solo using AI coding agents over ~3 months while working on other projects. Zero consultants, zero intern…

I am very interested in learning what this bot platform is used for. How’s the reception? Thanks!

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#459

Post by pizlonator »

mgh95 wrote: post #440
pizlonator wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The dollar hasn't really lost value compared to other currencies Yes it has. Euro costs 10% more in USD than one year ago

> Yes it has. Euro costs 10% more in USD than one year ago. But more or less only the euro. The USD has strengthened or held steady against INR, RMB, CAD, AUD, etc. The euro is strengthening even more, however.

Look at the gold price. Or BTC.

By those metrics the dollar has lost a lot of value in the last year

Re: AI isn't replacing jobs. AI spending is

#460

Post by trenchpilgrim »

com2kid wrote: post #416
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If all the workers are off shore I forget that HN forgets that many companies don't sell software yet have SWE teams.

Any company not selling software for $$$ is hopefully not paying bay area salaries for their engineering team. Mid west engineering teams are low six figure or even less. The cost savings from outsourcing a team of people earning 90k is meh compared to a team earning 300k.

You'd be surprised. I live in a state most SFers consider the middle of nowhere, and my friends and I make more in absolute terms than most SF companies offer (excepting the top tier). 90k is not much more than entry level IT pay here, even new grads make more.

Of course, you can't just work on CRUD apps or mobile apps, you have to build up domain knowledge of the business.

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