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Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

openai.com

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Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#451

Post by campers »

joshstrange wrote: post #216

The issue I continue to have with many AI coding tools is they want me to use their own editor ("native", aka VSCode fork, or in the browser like this). I have zero intention of moving away from IDEA and nothing I've seen so far is good enough to make me want to switch. I really with there was more of "bringing AI into your existing tools/workflows" instead of "here is a new tool with AI baked in".

I mainly use CLI tools for AI assistance.

I'll use Continue when a chat is all I want to generate some code/script to copy paste in. When I need to prepare a bigger input I'll use the CLI tool in Sophia (sophia.dev) to generate the response.

I use Aider sometimes, less so lately, although it has caught up with some features in Sophia (which builds on top of Aider), being able to compile, and lint, and separating design from the implementation LLM call. With Aider you have to manually add/drop files from the context, which is good for having precise control over which files are included.

I use the code agent in Sophia to build itself a fair bit. It has its own file selection agent, and also a review agent which helps a lot with fixing issues on the initial generated changes.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#452

Post by dzhiurgis »

epolanski wrote: post #407

Small ot, but it's quite interesting that the highest decisive impact generative AI is having right now is on tech workers and software developers in particular. I'm more and more convinced that we're on the edge of a major shake up in the industry with all these tools. Not getting replaced, but at this rate of improvements I can't unsee major changes. A recent junior I have in my team built his first app entirely wi…

Regulating either developer credentials (ie are you certified for this type of solution) or outputs (formal validation of each release) comes to mind.

It’s gonna sound like gatekeeping but letting people without any experience to build impactful software is risky.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#453

Post by maxwell »

b212 wrote: post #418
boodleboodle wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced developers will be the "first to go" when AGI takes over. Before bloggers and youtubers. Because programming is an activity that requires the least amount of "grounding to reality" among all human activities. We made sure of this with layers and layers of convenient abstraction. What about developers that code the AI systems? Well.. I am sure AGI will come from other…

With AGI you won’t need most of the human race anymore, developers are just the tip of the iceberg. Luckily ChatGPT and the rest have nothing to do with an AI not to mention AGI.

Won't need most of humanity wasting time gatekeeping and toiling, to instead focus on study and leisure.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#454

Post by maxwell »

lttlrck wrote: post #440
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not AGI yet but has everything to do with it.

Hmmm. I'm going to withhold judgement until we get AGI. It might have about as much to do with it as the invention of the wheel and the lunar buggy.

How will you know when it's sufficiently general?

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#455

Post by campers »

freediver wrote: post #215
pragmomm wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canvas is closer to Cursor ( https://www.cursor.com ) than Claude. I wonder how Paul Graham thinks of Sam Altman basically copying Cursor and potentially every upstream AI company out of YC, maybe as soon as they launch on demo day. Is it a retribution arc?

Cursor was one of the first AI editors I used, but recently Aider has completely replaced the AI assisted coding for me. I still use cursor but just as an editor, all LLM work is done with aider in the shell.

Check out https://sophia.dev Its AI tooling I've built on top of Aider for the code editing. I initially built it before Aider added support for running compile and lint commands, as it would often generate changes which wouldn't compile.

I'd added seperate design/implementation agents before that was added to Aider https://aider.chat/2024/09/26/architect.html

The other different is I have a file selection agent and a code review agent, which often has some good fixes/improvements.

I use both, I'll use Aider if its something I feel it will right the first time or I want control over the files in the context, otherwise I'll use the agent in Sophia.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#456

Post by Kostchei »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #424
epolanski wrote: post #407

Small ot, but it's quite interesting that the highest decisive impact generative AI is having right now is on tech workers and software developers in particular. I'm more and more convinced that we're on the edge of a major shake up in the industry with all these tools. Not getting replaced, but at this rate of improvements I can't unsee major changes. A recent junior I have in my team built his first app entirely wi…

As an engineer I've spoken to a couple of different designers who are building out prototypes of their startup ideas using LLM assistance with the coding. While no actual engineer is involved at that stage, if they got funded then I'm sure their next step will be to hire a real engineer to do it all properly.

I mean that might happen, but why get funding? Why not move to market immediately? Without debt. Get in the thick of it. Just do. You want a wage or do you want a product that does the thing. Because sometimes, with the llm, you can just build the thing. The marketing, the compliance, you might hire for that, or you might also out-source to the llm.

Why would you hire? Either it works- in the sense of does the job and is cost effective- or it is not.

Is there a situation where paying 100's of k of wages makes a thing suddenly a good idea? I have doubts.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#457

Post by sitkack »

b212 wrote: post #418
boodleboodle wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced developers will be the "first to go" when AGI takes over. Before bloggers and youtubers. Because programming is an activity that requires the least amount of "grounding to reality" among all human activities. We made sure of this with layers and layers of convenient abstraction. What about developers that code the AI systems? Well.. I am sure AGI will come from other…

With AGI you won’t need most of the human race anymore, developers are just the tip of the iceberg. Luckily ChatGPT and the rest have nothing to do with an AI not to mention AGI.

We didn't need humans in the first place. The collective "we" can decide that we want to do anything. People have this crazy fatalistic attitude about AI taking over, billionaries ejecting to Mars and humans becoming irrelevant. Let me tell you, humans have been irrelevant since forever.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#458

Post by subtlesoftware »

frankdenbow wrote: post #442
epolanski wrote: post #407

Small ot, but it's quite interesting that the highest decisive impact generative AI is having right now is on tech workers and software developers in particular. I'm more and more convinced that we're on the edge of a major shake up in the industry with all these tools. Not getting replaced, but at this rate of improvements I can't unsee major changes. A recent junior I have in my team built his first app entirely wi…

I envision lots of solo coders now able to compete with bigger companies, creating more niche software that meets peoples need better than generic solutions. Truly exciting time to be in software.

[dead]

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#459

Post by sitkack »

Kostchei wrote: post #450
faitswulff wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a similar non-coding founder who was using LLMs to create a full fledged TypeScript based SaaS product and regularly comes to me with high level architecture questions, but also doesn't know or care to figure out what HTTP methods are, variable names are a mishmash of whatever case the LLM decided to generate that day, and there are no tests whatsoever. It's held together by sheer force of manual QA. ...but. I…

This my technique- test the output, make sure it works (in the sense of outputs) the way I want. Test the input edge cases, move on. Occasionally when I can't get it to do what I want the llm suggests things like logging of output between functions etc- in which case they get added, but at the end I ask it to take out all the logging and make the code more concise. And sometimes it breaks in ways I can't fix - so rol…

Which is awesome, and if you wanted to understand the code, it would do an amazing job of tutoring you. I love seeing people being able to solve their own problems without the need for a professional programmer.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#460

Post by nsonha »

charlie0 wrote: post #342
nsonha wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually tried? I have not, but just look at how it still regenerates the entire code instead of producing a diff. Who iterates on software like that?

I haven't tried it, but have been considering it. I already pay for OpenAI, not sure I want to pay for another AI service.

I am refering to Canvas.

Cursor on the other hand works by produce minimal diffs and allows you to iterate on multiple files at once, in your IDEs. There are tools of the same type that compete with Cursor, but Canvas is too bare bone to be one of them.

Trial is free.

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