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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#451

Post by frumper »

queuebert wrote: post #401
danShumway wrote: post #389

Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…

Kind of like how realtors make more money on a house transaction than the closing attorneys who draw up all the paperwork and execute it legally.

I don't know if that is a good comparison. Our realtor has spent a lot of hours over the past few years showing us homes and writing up more than a few losing bids. It's not constant attention, but so far it's all unpaid.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#452

Post by FredPret »

kelnos wrote: post #420
FredPret wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act as if all the iPhone Patreon donations would've rolled in regardless of the app / app store, but also that Apple is somehow going to kill it. It's logically inconsistent. 1. If Apple plays a key part in getting those donations, then the 30% is not a problem: the content creator is not getting 70c on the dollar; the content creator is getting 70c instead of 0c. Apple gets people to donate that wouldn't otherwi…

> The beauty of capitalism is that we used to have horses and shoes only, then black cars became an option, and now you can buy any color you like. I'm pretty sure it's at best wildly misleading to argue that the reason cars were invented is "capitalism".

[flagged]

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#453

Post by matwood »

wpm wrote: post #54
raverbashing wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or drop the app. And explain to everybody why you're doing this Patreon works fine in a web browser.

And watch loads of creators lose a good portion of their livelihood and leave the platform?

This is part of Apple's argument why they think they are owed 30%. They have built and nurture the most affluent set of mobile users with a CC ready to charge. A company leaving Android is ho hum, but leaving iOS is business ending. How valuable then is it to be on iOS? 30%?

I'm not making a judgement on right or wrong, but I see many people just thinking about infrastructure and not realizing Apple sees iOS user base as one that would not exist without them. And, they want to get paid for access.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#454

Post by chihuahua »

g15jv2dp wrote: post #98
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't charge 30% for physical good sold through apps on ios.

Yet.

You use your bank's app? Guess what, Apple gets 30% of your account balance. Look at your 401k balance? Believe it or not, Apple owns 30% of that.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#455

Post by matwood »

standardUser wrote: post #279
lenerdenator wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a far from monopolistic US market share for mobile devices. They might be one of the largest single vendors, but if I want to go buy a new smartphone that has decent app and service support from the marketplace, I can absolutely do that without giving so much as a penny to Apple.

Apple has just over 60% of the US market share and employee a whole arsenal of tactics to create artificial friction with other platforms in order to increase that market share.

IMO, it's the interop that that will potentially get Apple. The stuff about the store and fees will likely end up nowhere in the US.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#456

Post by zchrykng »

nomad41 wrote: post #429
saratogacx wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model is the "old school" model for software sales. The first version you sell to a user at full price and offer a discount for upgrading (something like 40% off). It lets the customer pick when they feel the value prop is worth the cost and lets you offer a loyalty incentive to the user. Right now the choice is "keep paying for it to keep working" or "fully price for every upgrade".

I don’t exactly remember how it went but ~5 years ago Goodnotes 5 came out and they offered a “bundle” of Goodnotes 4 and 5 together at the same price of Goodnotes 5. Maybe owners of version 4 had some kind of discount on the bundle because they already owned half of it?

That isn't officially supported and is super error prone. People can end up getting charged more if things don't work perfectly.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#457

Post by AmVess »

AlexandrB wrote: post #249
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

It has basically made their app store completely unusable. I am not going to manage a bunch of subs for what amounts to zero effort crapware.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#458

Post by ceejayoz »

abfan1127 wrote: post #447
danShumway wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, I would argue, like if a realtor made more money off of the sale than the person selling the house made.

that is easily true. You buy a house for $500k. A year later, you decide to move. The house's value remains at $500k. Realtor commissions of 6% cost you $30k. You lost $30k on the total transaction, the realtor made $30k (not including the original buy).

Surely the realtor shouldn't work for $0 just because your investment didn't pan out, though?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#459

Post by frumper »

input_sh wrote: post #218
SilkRoadie wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the app give any benefit over the web? Asking customers to use the browser over the dedicated app doesn’t seem unreasonable.

Apple forbids even mentioning alternative payment methods within the app.

If I click my subscription on my iOS Disney+ app, it just launches a browser to manage.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#460

Post by bondarchuk »

kmeisthax wrote: post #371
ReptileMan wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit juice[0] You don't need antitrust. Just consumer rights.

The bigger we let companies get, the bigger the government has to get in order to enforce the law. At some point (which we've already passed) both governments and corporations are so big and all-controlling that they act as one, and there is no "keeping them honest". Consumer rights go out the window because nobody is willing to enforce them when being a good government employee precludes becoming a corporate employe…

>The bigger we let companies get, the bigger the government has to get in order to enforce the law.

I don't see that at all. A very small government that is willing to jail execs for infractions would go very far. It's just that the will is not there.

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