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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
451–457 of 457 posts
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing that they have often done in the past, is to temporarily drop their prices to outcompete newcomers, making it impossible for newcomers to outcompete them, and raising their prices back up once the newcomer is gone. The established monopolists always have deeper pockets than the newcomers. I'd love to see how you stop that without regulation.
> One thing that they have often done in the past, is to temporarily drop their prices to outcompete newcomers, making it impossible for newcomers to outcompete them, and raising their prices back up once the newcomer is gone. Could you give examples of this happening? When the prices are low that sounds like a good outcome for their customers. Assuming the price drop doesn't affect other aspects customers care about…
> When the prices are low that sounds like a good outcome for their customers.
No, because it's only temporary. They only lower the price to drive the competitor out of business, and once they're out of business, they raise the prices again.
> there isn't anything preventing another newcomer from emerging
Yes there is: investment. If every newcomer goes out of business like that, that makes it a bad investment to enter that market. You are already at a disadvantage entering a new market because of the investment needed. If you then can't recoup those costs, there's not much point in even trying. And the established big players can and will drop their prices to run you out of business unless stopped by regulation. Your argument only works if you ignore investment costs necessary to enter a market.
There's literally more than a century of legal history behind this.
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#453Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment
That is not the definition of slavery. Slavery is being forced to work.
Virtually everyone is forced to work, or face death. Being forced to work is the de facto human experience. Effectively, there isn't a choice to work or not.
Presenting work as a choice is closely analagous to presenting eating as a choice
Pay, or relative lack thereof, is what defines degree of slavery (complete or partial).
The only real arguments being a.) if one is paid what the work is worth and b.) how much of that pay is retaken in the form of taxes (direct or indirect like when company towns, or estates, recoup most of the pay in the form of costs to the laborer).
Therefore, we will add an additional form of enslavement process: purposefully (often illegally) diulting the value of labor so that it is cheaper.
If a serf is "paid" but the boss and landlord recoups nearly all of that pay in rent and taxes, is the serf a slave?
Few moral and logical people would say no.
Slaver hand-waving deserves to be called out.
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not the definition of slavery. Slavery is being forced to work.
I would amend that slavery is being forced to work for a single person/corporation with a massive penalty for trying to change it.
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#455Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment
The tipping thing is insane. I live in a rather progressive city, very pro labor. Many local restaurants have added small fees to your bill, often called something like "living wage fee" or something similar, the implication being it's a fee to help improve the wages the staff get. Except it's a 3% fee! I'm paying $50 for steak, surely you can just freaking charge me $52 and pay the staff what they deserve?! Why all…
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comparison added breaking and entering ! > And random line items added to a bill have nothing to do with this conversation Doesn't it? I'm sure employers withholding wages have some sort of itemized justification too.
Fine, they pickpocket you for $20 in the park. You're focusing on the wrong detail. My overall point is clear. You're wrong to say I'm being dishonest -- I was obviously trying to draw an equivalence. Pickpocketing is a better example, but I think my intention was clear.
I think that the original comment that CG replied to was making an important point about the balance of power between the two parties.
An employee working for an employer vs a customer of that same employer is not equivalent.
You shouldn't compare a person working for an employer with the hopes that they will receive a future paycheck for the work they are doing today (a paycheck that they likely are relying on to make good on commitments that they have) with a customer that receives a service today with the promise to pay it in the future (even though the service provider is also relying on that future payment to make good on commitments that they have made).
There is almost always an imbalance of power between an employee and an employer.
An employee might be doing identical work that a contractor could do, but as a contractor you might expect to be paid up front in partial or full, which an employee would not be able to expect.
It is more complicated with a customer and a service provider in terms of the balance of power. If you only have one option for who provides heat to your house that your children live in, then the provider has more power than the customer. If you like to drink at a bar when you have extra cash then the customer has more autonomy in that relationship than the bar.
One can come up with examples where the employee has more power over the employer, but it is more rare and not what the article in question is discussing.
Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers
#457Parking lot fines where you are accused of misusing a lot and fined: https://globalnews.ca/news/10217661/bc-man-private-parking-c...
Or being charged a fine when you were never there (due to someone reporting your number): https://globalnews.ca/news/9668618/bc-woman-fights-parking-v...
Or when trying to find another working machine your vehicle was ticketed even after being explained it would be waived (sorry, video): https://globalnews.ca/video/10283604/fort-langley-parking-ti...