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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#451

Post by ETH_start »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #420
comte7092 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap trains everywhere doesn’t have to mean high speed rail everywhere. You can have slower cheaper rail infrastructure that serves less traveled routes.

It also doesn't have to be profitable. Transportation is a service that's critical to economic function. There's no reason not to shift the cost of taxpayer funded vehicle infrastructure to transit infrastructure.

What those utilizing the transportation network are willing and able to pay to use the network will be directly proportional to how critical the usage of that transportation network is to economic function.

So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializing costs of transportation is what can cause economically non-viable transportation services to grow in usage, and in doing so, burden the economy with loss-making transportation.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#452

Post by throwaway22032 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #412
worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

UK here. I have driven both autos and manual cars.

It barely takes any mental energy to drive manual. After you learn it it's just not a big deal.

I drink coffee whilst driving.

Main difference is that American roads are big, grid layout, traffic light to runway to traffic light style things. UK roads weave inbetween buildings. It requires more attention.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#453

Post by comte7092 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #413
comte7092 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap trains everywhere doesn’t have to mean high speed rail everywhere. You can have slower cheaper rail infrastructure that serves less traveled routes.

Fair enough, but then nobody wants to use it because it's slow.

I like using the train in America.

The main issues I have are that the trips aren’t as frequent as I’d like and often don’t leave on time.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#454

Post by capableweb »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #412
worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

> Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission

I don't have any numbers regarding sales, but after renting 10s of cars in Europe during the last decade, it seems like they almost never have any manual cars anymore. In some countries, the entire fleet doesn't even include any manual ones anymore, I was told the last time I wanted to rent a car.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#455

Post by justapassenger »

simondotau wrote: post #337
justapassenger wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you’ve convinced me. I’ll go drive in FSD Tesla and be certain that you and Musk will personally guarantee safety of it and pickup the bill if something happens. Also, please actually go read the standard, and talk about design intent, and which main way to differentiate the systems.

Your sarcastic retort is not consistent with anything anyone is arguing. Nobody has said FSD is ready to be relied upon, least of all Tesla, who still calls it a "beta". This isn't what I said. This isn't what zaroth said. Nobody said it. So why did you say it? I realise this isn't a simple argument, but let me try again: DRIVE PILOT is ~100% capable of limited self-driving on ~0.01% of roads (a curated set of slow h…

I’m sarcastic as it’s hard to assume people argue here in either good faith or have any idea about the problem.

Being capable of 90% self driving means it’s not self driving, period. And going to ~100% is extremely, extremely difficult. Anyone comparing those numbers to show Tesla’s superiority (or even being in the same league) just doesn’t understand anything about safety critical systems.

What’s better - Airbus 320, which has limited range, or a hypothetical plane, that can fly around the world, and to Mars, but just 90% of the time?

And arguments here are especially funny, as Tesla has been openly lying about their abilities and progress for almost 7 years now.

And talking about ambitions - design intent defines your ambitions and capabilities of self driving systems on the SAE scale. Tesla openly claims to CA DMV, that they’re developing level 2 driver assist system, not a self driving system.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#456

Post by vermilingua »

afarrell wrote: post #443
0xr0kk3r wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$10B because it was neglected for a century. But that's peanuts compared to CEO compensation. So tax the rich and get it done.

According to labor union association AFL-CIO, the highest CEO compensation in 2021 was $835 million[1], less than a tenth the cost of the $10 billion estimate for the North-South connector. Also, I would expect at least a few cost overruns. [1] https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos

Yeah, the highest paid single individual person on that list gets only a measly 8% of the total estimate per year, therefore we shouldn't tax the rich.

The extreme mental gymnastics some people will go to to rationalize the current state of the world absolutely blows my mind.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#457

Post by dmix »

jacquesm wrote: post #320
dmix wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What features does Tesla FSD offer that Mercedes doesn’t?

Liability.

Not sure how that relates to the point OP was making. Unless I misunderstood his point?

> Mercedes is delivering a product that only support a few features but do it well

This naturally implies that Tesla experimented with a broader set of self-driving features in an throw-it-at-the-wall experimental fashion. Which is more of a technical/product management question than a financial/legal/marketing one. Unless OP simply means Mercedes released the same set of features just extremely restricted in what you can do with them?

If so the hacker/experimental vs limited focus on "small set of features" dichotomy is not super relevant. It's just business risk aversion or gov regulatory strategy, not product/technology development strategy.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#458

Post by rrdharan »

tapoxi wrote: post #406
dontlaugh wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want cheap trains everywhere.

I mean that's a bus or Bus Rapid Transit, because a train requires dedicated infrastructure and is a fixed route. A bus can route around problems where a train cannot. In Boston they're trying to connect North Station and South Station, a distance of about 5 miles. The cost is at least $10 billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_Rail_Link

Roads are terrible, bus suspensions are terrible and the noise and ride quality are correspondingly also terrible.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#459

Post by XajniN »

capableweb wrote: post #454
AussieWog93 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

> Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission I don't have any numbers regarding sales, but after renting 10s of cars in Europe during the last decade, it seems like they almost never have any manual cars anymore. In some countries, the entire fleet doesn't even include any manual ones anymore, I was told the last time I wanted to rent a car.

That’s true for rentals, they don’t want idiots screwing up their gearboxes. But, most cars on the streets are manuals, and you can’t get a driver’s license if you don’t know how to drive one.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#460

Post by nelox »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #412
worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

Americans should look outward with humility to policies which are proven to be effective. However, that may be bridge too far, given the inward looking hubris which has bedeviled road safety in America.
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