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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#451

Post by freejazz »

ggreer wrote: post #258
Veserv wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also does not know what one way street, do not enter, road closed, and speed limit signs are. Really, the only signs it appears to know about are stop signs. As for their QA process, in 2018 they had a braking distance problem on the Model 3. They learned of it, implemented a change that alters the safety critical operation of the brakes, then pushed it to production to all Model 3s without doing any rollout testi…

Teslas have understood speed limit signs since 2020.[1] 1. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/upcoming-tesla-software-2020-...

Not according the recall the NHTSA posted that is the subject of this entire thread....

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#452

Post by binkHN »

winter_blue wrote: post #275
jackmott42 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?

FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta. You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta. I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s). [1] The B…

> Smart Summon

How often do you use this and how well does it work?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#453

Post by zitterbewegung »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #190
buildbot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

We should probably go beyond the verbiage of recall but right now since it is removing a feature I think that recall is appropriate. A better verbiage might be safety reversion .

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#454

Post by tsgagnon »

jdelman wrote: post #400

The confusion from multiple HN posters here confirms that the "recall" language is inadequate to capture what is happening here. Obviously attention should be drawn to the fact that there is a critical safety update being pushed OTA, but "recall" is too overloaded a term if it means both "we're taking this back and destroying it because it's fundamentally flawed" vs. "a software update is being pushed to your vehicle…

Obviously attention should be drawn to the fact that there is a critical safety update being pushed OTA, but "recall" is too overloaded a term if it means both "we're taking this back and destroying it because it's fundamentally flawed" vs. "a software update is being pushed to your vehicle (which may or may not be fundamentally flawed...)"

How many times in history has a vehicle recall meant the cars were returned and destroyed?

What makes this situation any more confusing than all the previous times vehicles were recalled?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#455

Post by kortex »

MockObject wrote: post #413
taf2 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had it do strange stuff too... but I use it regularly in dense traffic it's great for stop and go traffic. the important thing is if you're driving you're driving. I don't turn it on and think oh sweet i can take a nap or read some hacker news posts... I keep my eyes on the road. There are bugs and I don't trust it but I do use it much like I use ChatGPT and the likes...

How is it useful, if it requires such attention?

I have bog standard subaru EyeSight lane assist and dynamic cruise. It's quite nice, even though you are still "driving" and ready to take control. It reduces mental CPU by 50-80% (driving for me is practically like walking to begin with, largely subconscious). It's great in stop-and-go and long highway stretches.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#456

Post by rodgerd »

redundantly wrote: post #441
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

I don't think the other people that replied picked up on your sarcasm.

Musk stans poison discussion so thoroughly that it becomes impossible for people do differentiate between Paul Verhoeven levels of sarcasm, and the ernestly held opinions of his fan club.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#457

Post by freejazz »

linsomniac wrote: post #433
alberth wrote: post #271

Dumb question: why would anyone sign-up for a beta program, that could kill you if gone wrong? (maybe people just don't think through ramifications)

How would the FSD beta program kill me? I realize that not everybody is in agreement, but I personally use the FSD beta while remaining fully in control of the vehicle. I steer with it, I watch the road conditions, I check my blind spots when it is changing lanes, I hit the accelerator if it is slowing unexpectedly, I hit the brakes if it is not... You know, basically behaving exactly as the terms you have to agree t…

>How would the FSD beta program kill me?

By crashing in a way that is fatal to your life

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#458

Post by ryandvm »

scottyah wrote: post #237
idlewords wrote: post #141

I love that this is the same guy who wants to send people to Mars one-way and then figure out the return trip later.

Colonization is his goal, guaranteeing a return trip for everyone seems pretty dumb.

> Colonization is his goal

Bullshit. Colonization _might_ be a side effect. Bilking various governments out of subsidies and fat contracts is the goal. Just like every other single Musk venture, it is based entirely on feeding at the trough of federal largesse.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#459

Post by [deleted] »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #437
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

> True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. They rolled out software with critical safety issues. They have to be called out.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#460

Post by dylan604 »

jlv2 wrote: post #154

There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.

Was the recall a voluntary recall by the company or something the company was told to do by a regulator? To me, recall means much more than just having to have the company replace something. It means they have to do it at their expense. So in this case, it's not as bad for Tesla's bottom line if it is just an OTA update. A recall is something that the car industry is used to doing whenever they have to fix a mistake. I would not be surprised if the industry doesn't have ways of writing those expenses off in taxes or something, so need to be able to specifically itemize the recall work.
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