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Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#451

Post by krageon »

anarchogeek wrote: post #27

What about inmutable systems? My app (using scuttlebutt) creates an 'account' but it's located as crypto keys only within the app and apple keychain. So far the apple reviewers refused to believe that it works like. It's open source, they've got the code... but still.... Same is true for anything crypto. The account as it were exists on many devices, but it's not something you as the app creator can manage. I think a…

For "actually private" systems like this the solution should be cryptoshredding. If this is not possible (f.e. because you believe information published once should be available forever), then the app is bad and should not exist. People have a right to be forgotten.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#452

Post by EGreg »

If your core app functionality is not related to a specific social network (e.g. Facebook, WeChat, Weibo, Twitter, etc.), you must provide access without a login or via another mechanism.

So is this what often happens in a field with large players … only the current social networks can exist, no new ones may ever be launched in the App Store?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#453

Post by bgeeek »

bin_bash wrote: post #350
d23 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love privacy.com for this, and I’ll never sign up for a trial or something recurring without using it again. I signed up for a trial for another service which shall remain unnamed, and of course I couldn’t find anywhere on the site to cancel my trial once I wanted to. No problem, I just disabled the card. They’ve probably tried to bill me a dozen times since.

There are some less scrupulous sites that ban privacy.com cards. Dallas Morning News is a recent one I ran into.

I hadn't heard of privacy.com cards, but that thought had crossed my mind. What is to stop organisations simply banning privacy.com cards?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#454

Post by wizzwizz4 »

EastOfTruth wrote: post #376
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It probably could be fine for public user data that you want to spread out and be somewhat resistant to censor from governments. Can you give an example? “spread out and be somewhat resistant to censorship from governments” is just a description of blockchain's strengths¹. > why do you talk about it if it isn't relevant? If I didn't mention it, I'd be lying by omission. In order for this discussion to make sense, I…

> Can you give an example? it is very easy to find an example of censorship, not sure why you need one but let's say: "World marks 32 years since Tiananmen massacre as China censors all mention of it" There is also daily examples of censorship on this website.

I mean an example for when you'd want to put user data on the blockchain – rather than a description of the general category. (It's a mistake many mathematicians make at one time or other: declaring a property on all members of a certain set without first checking whether it's the empty set.)

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#455

Post by sokoloff »

runj__ wrote: post #237
imchillyb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I can allow the initiation of deletion but never actually completely delete the account… and my app complies. @TedDoesntTalk If the users that are requesting account deletions see that your app is purposely not complying, I don't imagine your app will be available for long in the app store. Your response is why Apple is implementing this change in the first place. Screw AOL and all of the rest of you making thin…

It can just go through a manual review and delete the parts that they're are legally required to delete. While I don't agree with a lot of the money laundering/terror financing laws banks shouldn't have to delete your data if you're trying to avoid taxes or whatever. INITIATION is the important part, if they fail to delete the parts they're required to delete, F them: get them off the app store.

That last phrase (the punishment for violating record deletion laws) was a much softer ending to your post than I was expecting.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#456

Post by oauea »

midev wrote: post #332
oauea wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another developer-hostile apple policy. Amazing. You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point.

If you think requiring the ability to delete your account is "developer hostile", you're exactly why this provision needs to exist. Apple is giving you six months to stop fucking your users. Sorry not sorry :\ > You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point My company has an app on the app store. We do a few hundred million dollars in sales via the app. Are we crazy?

Nah, I think being forced to implement it within 3 months is hostile. I think Apple refusing to send announcements through the mail is hostile.

Apps are just a single frontend to a larger system, and Apple thinks they can dictate the workings of that entire system just because you want to let users access your system from an Apple device. It's bonkers.

Imagine microsoft going: "Microsoft edge will refuse to render your website unless there is a "delete account button". How would that make you feel?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#457

Post by sokoloff »

after_care wrote: post #326
ziml77 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a major reason I'm personally wary about a lot of ideas around putting stuff onto a public blockchain. Once it's there it's never going away. Even just transaction info on a public blockchain is odd to me. It's possible to remain anonymous, but all it takes is one slip-up and then anyone can perform blockchain analysis to trace all sorts of stuff back to me.

On the other hand, if all currency was on a blockchain it would be possible to perform block chain analysis to determine each individual’s wealth and income making taxes much easier.

You’d miss the value (and often ownership percentages) of anything illiquid (real estate, privately held companies/partnerships, and trusts).

That’s a significant slippage from the dystopian ideal of being able to calculate something that many think is none of your business.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#458

Post by oauea »

floatingatoll wrote: post #314
oauea wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is you're at the whims of some random app store reviewer and it depends completely on their mood of the day. It's honestly insane and impossible to work with. One day everything is fine, the next they have a list of issues that you are forced to spend dozens of developer hours on, just so apple will grace you with the permission to push an unrelated localization fix.

Correct, you are at the whims of Apple when you attempt to publish to their app store.

Some random app store reviewer fella. Not sure if you've ever been on the phone with them, but it does not inspire confidence at all.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#459

Post by sokoloff »

onion2k wrote: post #415
Hermel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain wallets are an interesting case. I would argue that for example an Ethereum wallet that generates an address for you in the Ethereum system is not required to provide a way to delete that account again. Similarly, the Chrome app is not required to allow you to delete your hackernews account even though you created it using the Chrome app. Generally, if an app enables you to create an account in a system co…

Generally, if an app enables you to create an account in a system controlled by someone else, the account deletion rule shouldn’t be applicable The post you're replying to says Apple believe it should. Unless you can persuade Apple to change their policy, it won't matter if you disagree.

Safari enables me to create accounts on lots of services controlled by third parties and, for some of these, Safari does not symmetrically enable me to initiate a deletion in-app.

(I’ll give you that Safari isn’t in the App Store but many other browsers are. It would viewed as anti-competitive for Apple to remove all competing browsers.)

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#460

Post by RNCTX »

Does no one else see these things as flailing attempts to maintain their app store revenue?

They will throw the end-users (not actual end users but businesses who pay for phone app development) to the wolves in terms of forcing them to rewrite apps so that they can have a few blog posts about "user data security," despite the fact that we know there was at least one CIA backdoor in OSX in the early 2000s until ~2015 or so.

At some point all phone apps are going to be javascript web apps, Apple is just desperately trying to prolong the inevitable here.

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